Dean, My point was that there are very few experts. The fact is the grids are small. I think some want to see the elimination of a class (which one and the naming probably doesn't matter) so the grids are larger and the racing is more fun. It would be a bonus if the racing looked good from an outsiders point of view as well. It doesn't with 4 or 5 bikes in a race. Some on this forum have suggested that a race of 3 is still a race and that even 1 bike should be able to run their race (albeit fewer laps). I don't agree with that. I would happily leave my r6 in the US and buy a 250 to race at mission if that was were the fun was.
I'm fully aware. I just wanted to make a point about why those experts left. I get a little defensive, as it's been thrown out there that those riders left because the executive did a poor job of running the club, which is not the reason why they left. Okay, with that out of the way, I agree with you. We need to increase grid sizes. I am a little hesitant to force people into expert grids for fear that they may choose to not race anymore. It's no secret that if we lose a lot of ridership due to administrative decisions or poorly thought out changes, this club will go bankrupt. The economical state both this and our neighbors to the south are in, doesn't really allow for discretionary spending a lot at the race track. That's why we are discussing this, so that we can make a fully voted on and informed decision. I wish we had the money to "build it and let them come", but we have to try to cater to everyone, until we can build up a financial base to try these things. Does anyone have ideas how we can do with while minimizing financial risk? because that's the key here.
i'm really respecting both dean and adam's persepective here,i'm assuming i didn't get the bump this year as a result of lap times(due to bike having issues which played on my mind and missing race's again (bike issues).which i'm ok with not being bumped to expert.if that were to happen,it would mean i wouldn't be coming out as much to race.even if i'm running in the 14's which is mid pack or at the back.ya,it would be fun racing against a few with similiar lap times..this becomes just for fun,so i would probably just head off to some other tracks for trackday's.how the hell am i supposed to compete with current experts that have been racing for many years? i could still come out and pay for racing without michelin's contigency....but it sure took the bite out of it this year.as for suggestions dean from a financial risk....that's a good question.the three tiers has worked thus far.
If it's not broke, don't fix it. The club is functioning well enough to keep the majority happy. I thought 2011 went pretty good. Numbers of entries go up and down with the economy, there's no way to change that. Pushing a bunch of people up into Expert to make the fast guys happy with bigger grids isn't a great idea either, but I understand the reasoning. Honestly the biggest thing keeping several racers away is the sound issue, and if they're not willing to swap a muffler to come race there's not much the club can do about that. 2012 sounds like it's going to be an even better year with several new racers coming out, so lets not do anything drastic. :2cents:
I really agree with Dean T - don't fix what isn't broken. Having just graduated through it this year, I think that the club does a great job of graduating novices. Maybe it would have been a bit more fun for me to be able to race in 118 after four races instead of six, but that's not a big deal. The only thing I really would have liked would have been an extra practice session in the morning like we had in Edmonton. I can't quite figure out why they seem to be able to fit more classes and practices into their schedule and still fit it all into the same day. I think Dean's tech suggestion might help us get moving faster in the morning and allow us more room in the schedule. I'm not sure how eliminating intermediate really changes much since the grids are often combined already. Maybe it would be better to combine them by default to leave room in the schedule to try some of these other classes. One other thing to consider when changing the rules (that don't seem really broken right now from my perspective) is that you don't want to alienate current racers. Right now I can do 3 races each race day, and that's about right for me. I know that if I had just bought a bike and suddenly found out I could only do 1 race a day it would pretty much kill my racing as it's just not worth it to show up for just 1 race. It would also kill the amount of revenue the club gets from me by more than 50%. I think the best thing the club ever did was let the 250s race with the Novices AND the 250 class. That's a great value for someone just starting out - the bike is cheap and they get lots of track time - and the club gets more revenue from their additional race fees. Win win. I bet the vintage guys would also love another race, and they'd likely be willing to pay for it. Maybe let them run with middleweight superbike as well as F118? Right now if you're an expert on a 600 you have the possibility of being competitive in a bunch races per day - 600SS, OpenSS and Superbike. I know that everyone doesn't run all of those, so if you want to increase revenue then we should make some room for other people to get on the track. Fast 25 is a great class, but do we really need another class that's dominated by 600s? I already have trouble explaining to people the difference between open supersport and superbike. But the bottom line is that the more classes and races we can cram onto the track, the more revenue we will have. Last thing, I would definitely like to see horsepower limits in middleweight twins...
I cant say about other racers but this was the only year I ever won a race. I started in 2007 and took 2010 off for financial reasons, 3 years. That is a lot of mid to back of pack finishes and I never thought of quitting... that isnt a club thing, it is an intestinal fortitude thing (military saying - cant explain it to the unwashed) but to quit something just cause you aren't 'winning' seems a bit limp to me. I know i dont have a chance of seeing a podium next year but I am ecstatic of being bumped to expert... the real question is how much do i have for a competitive 'weapon'... my current bike runs at 100 hp, i need more for expert 600. This is where a lot of other riders question the costs as this game is spendy... do I get a 600 that I have a chance with or do I end up moving to the classic or twin category... only time with tell. Personally I like the 600 classes as it is the rush that brings me to the track, I get to pretend to be a racer for a day what more can a 40 something guy with a dull job ever ask for?
That's kind of funny, as it seems you have a brand new bike every other year. Allot of guys (me included) or on 7 to 10 year old beat up bikes. Most of the top expert finishers are either on new bikes or have expensive engine builds. The "80% rider" anology only holds so much water. Take 2 good riders, one on a new bike and the other on an old worn out bike. Who'll win?
After reading several posts and thinking it thru again regards contingency I am changing my opinion a bit so I deleted the original post and will put my points from the previous post in brief followed by the change. (1) Give every racer 2 practice sessions (2) Focus on building grid size by combining classes (3) Make the classes easy to understand for everyone...racers, spectators, sponsors I am changing my tune with regards to killing intermediate purely from a financial point of view. This year was my first year and I was in novice until round 6 so I wasn't eligible for contingency. In May/June timeframe I spoke to Marbod briefly about what money Pirrelli was offering intermediate's or expert's and I was told they weren't offering any and that stuck in my mind. I did speak to Ryan briefly about Michelin but since I wasn't eligible I didn't switch and forgot about the money they were paying. Thanks Lu for pointing it out. If they are going to be that generous again next year and Pirrelli is still not paying out I will switch to go after the money. This year was stupid expensive for me and I really need to offset some costs next year. For this reason I now say keep intermediate.
I've had just as much fun battling between another person or two than winning a race.i never said i was quitting...have no clue what the hell your talking about dave.i would be looking at all the options,and priorities.by the way lance,michelin was paying for novices also.i love pirelli tires as much as anybody else.if the pro's can do 10's on michelin's....well you know the rest.
I was in the 07 school as well. So were the Toths, Nevada, AJ Wong, Manni, Stephen, Rusty, Twin Bros... only you me and the brothers are still racing at Mission. Rusty is in Edmonton. Hopefully the Toths will return as their fantastic attitudes are missed in the pits... People certainly come and go. The system which is in place worked for me... but Im a bit of a chicken that way. We haven't agreed about much but a few things I do agree with you on. When I did take a bite of superbike I had a great time, but I think I was ready for it. I really wanted in there. I still got smoked (only got on the podium twice all year 2nd and a 3rd) but I had a great time, was a hoot battling it up with the gang. But i am wired that way, it worked for me in a lot of hard situations that I found myself in 'growing up' so to speak. I would never dream of quitting just cause I wasnt close to winning. Now if it becomes unfun(that a word) then see ya. I love the racing, I just want a chance small as it may be. Can my 04 R6 be competitive? In the right hands for sure... but in mine I have my doubts, I really could use the power of a newer 600. So now I am hunting hte interwebs for a new weapon for mission
ALERT ALERT**** THREAD DERAILED Novice year shouldnt be stupid expensive... I am not the only one to say this but since it came up regarding tires and contingency. My novice year i ran a single set of 2CTs, even used the recall front the entire year... then turned it in for a new one for my street bike. No, zip, zero issues. Were other people running race rubber with warmers and all that goes with it? Sure, and the majority have left the game citing money being the major issue. 08 I used some take offs and in 2009 I ran two set of tires the entire year including all track days. No I am not one of the fast guys (times are there for everyone to see) but I had a hell of a good time. This year I used two sets of rubber plus an extra rear, I dont count rains as everyone needs a set every 5 yrs or so lol. Tire expenses were not an issue for me. If i had some balls I would try the other tires but I cant go even remotely fast if I dont believe in my equipment. For me I believe in pirellis... sucks for me that when I finally get to the front they dont pay but I still had a blast.
+1 on this. Personally, I'd like to have white numbers on either a blue or green background just like Jaarno did. And be classfied as a "cool" rider rather than an AM or PRO. Seeing how I'm riding disadvantaged bikes and all that. Why not. Make me feel real special now... Still having fun tho'.
Really Adam, seriously? Maybe I'll lend out my R1 next year to prove that statement right or wrong (and not to Crevier). I'm embarassed for you for that statement about being embarassed for me. lol.
But in all seriousness, in all types of motorsports, to run at the front in the higher levels you need to have newer machinery with some key mods. I'm in no way trying to take anything away from you, Ken, Steve, Tyler, Richard, Spero, etc, as I know you all have great riding skills, so don't take my statement as a personal attack. That little edge each front runner needs is found in that next modification, either in the engine or the suspension. It's a never ending evolution of performance. I will not be racing Open and Superbike in 2012 as I don't want to buy a new bike or spend a shit ton of money getting more performance. I'll pussy out and race a slower bike in slower classes.
But Dean you already run a 250 I don't think you can find a slower bike unless you want to start up the CB 125 cup again!
