race fees

Discussion in 'Ask the Exec!' started by andre331, Nov 16, 2017.

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  1. andre331

    andre331 New Member

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    Hi Everyone on the exec, I'm feeling way better and looking forward to next season. Its time to go back to my thorn in your side status with the following proposal( again).... with that much money in the bank account how about lowering the race fees?
     
  2. jcathie

    jcathie Member

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    Andre, I am so glad to hear you are healing up just fine.

    First, we need to spend a lot of money in the off-season to repair the Air Fence and replace the dead decoder. Then, there is the thought to set money aside for re-paving the Turn 7, 8, 9 complex. SCCBC doesn't use it and we do. It's only fair we cover some or even all of the cost when the need arises.

    I'm sure that will be a topic for discussion at the next meeting.

    Al made clear to me that only expenses that help put bikes on the track are going to be acceptable under his leadership and I support that conservatism. There may be other expenses that help grow the club but it's his final say on those strategies. He's DA BOSS.

    Lowering fees is certainly a nice-to-have but it's not up to me.
     
  3. andre331

    andre331 New Member

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    Thanks John, I just wanted to point out that making racing more attractive financially than a track day might help more new racers come out and let the rest of us maybe enter a 2nd or 3rd class. I know there are factors other than cost that have been keeping people away, but I think that enough time has past and with the hard work and positive attitude of Jasons time as club president maybe its time for the club to reach out to some past members who left with less than warm fuzzy feelings about how they were treated
     
  4. Andrew Marles

    Andrew Marles Moderator

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    Andre, I hear what you're saying about the race fees, but I'm not sure that they are really that much more than a trackday though if you look at the numbers. If you are not a racer, a trackday costs $190 with the WMRC. On average, that means 5 x 15 minute sessions per day. Now if you enter 2 classes with the WMRC, the cost is $180 (less than a trackday) and that gets you 2 practice sessions and 2 races. The amount of actual track time (laps) is actually pretty close to what you will get at a trackday, and the intensity is much higher. To me 1 minute of racing is better than 3 minutes of open track. If I run 3 classes then the cost is $225, so yes, that day is more than a trackday by 35 dollars. When you consider the extra time and effort that goes into the race days, I think the additional cost is pretty reasonable. But that is just my opinion, and while I don't think that the difference is that significant, there potentially a delta if you go up to the price cap; which has not changed since it was introduced in 2011, despite rising event costs.

    The WMRC actually offers a discount for racers, mostly just out of respect for WCSS and their tradition and because we are a race club. No other trackday organization in the northwest does anything like that. A practice day with WMRRA costs a lot more than a trackday with OPRT at the Ridge.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
  5. Ryan Whittle

    Ryan Whittle Rider of Orange V-Twins

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    From a race fee perspective, it *feels* like it's expensive. Most of our race dates are double headers and not spaced out terrible far apart (I know this isn't the club's fault, just the reality of the situation).

    For me at least, dropping close to $500 on entry fees for the weekend only to do it again a few weeks later gets tough to justify. Running 3 classes a day for $350 - $400 would make it a bit more palatable.
     
  6. *Jay*

    *Jay* Member WMRC Exec

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    Give me a list of "past members who left with less than warm fuzzy feelings about how they were treated" and I will happily contact them and invite them to enjoy the current environment within the WMRC.

    I would only be echoing Andrews stance on race fees and I feel that he has summed it up perfectly. That being said I think that It is usually a bit more expensive to race than do a track day, that is a simple fact once you consider all of the consumables. I know that I generally didn't go through tires on my 600 at the same rate on a trackday as racers did on raceday. So even if the entry fee was the exact same the cost to participate would still differ. I still I find it WAY more exciting to race than ride laps at a trackday and I cannot be the only one that feels this way. I enjoy both but there is no comparison.
     
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  7. BikeMike

    BikeMike New Member

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    Whats wrong with the dead decoder if its electronic want me to see if I can fix it before replacing it?
     
  8. Andrew Marles

    Andrew Marles Moderator

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    They took the old decoder back on 'trade.'
     
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  9. jcathie

    jcathie Member

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    The deal is done. I should have the new electronics in my grimy little mitts this Thursday.

    The tricky thing with proprietary electronics is they'll sand the identifying part numbers off IC's, et al in order to make it difficult to reverse engineer or repair. Plus, the case is riveted closed inside the 4 rubber feet, so those would have to be drilled out (they really don't want people opening them up).
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
  10. jcathie

    jcathie Member

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    It is a trade in transaction, though they haven't mentioned any requirement for me to send the old hardware back to them.

    Technically it's a trade-in and upgrade transaction. We're trading in an old single loop decoder and getting a 2 decoder system in return along with all the incidental features of upgraded hardware and software.

    If we ever wanted to go to the expense of adding sector times, they made it a lot easier to do it with GPS location and GPS satellite clock synchronization for the decoders and server.

    Lord only knows what I'm going to discover in the Orbits 5 software.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
  11. BikeMike

    BikeMike New Member

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    This sounds like the red transponders to replace the batteries you have to cut the case open, but still possible, I do it all the time :)
     
  12. jcathie

    jcathie Member

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    Replacing a battery is one thing. Identifying electronic components without any identifying marks is something else. But I have the new gear and now I have 30 days to ship the dead one back.

    But you could have a steady supply of customers needing new batteries.
     
  13. joseph therrien

    joseph therrien Past President

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    One important thing that has not been mentioned in this discussion of race fees and the cost of racing: The elected executive officers of this club are obliged by the Societies Act to be financially responsible for the debts of the club. This goes a long way to explain why our elected officers act so finanacially conservative. It costs the club over $10,000 a day to run an event; whether 10 racers show up or 100. If you have a bad weather weekend and few racers show, the club must still pay the track rental, insurance fee, and ambulance cost, just to mention the three biggest costs. Get two rainy events in a row and your previously healthy bank account can evaporate. As John Cathie mentioned the club also needs with some regularity to upgrade equipment. Our AirFence which is now over 10 years old and needs to be maintained as well. Just how much of a financial cushion we need depends on where you are standing. A healthy bank account insures the club can survive.
     
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  14. ted

    ted asshat

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    I chime in on this every year so this year will be no different. What's better on track? 20 bikes at $50 a class or 10 at $100? And stop using the fear of a rain day to justify not dropping fees. How many past presidents made the races work without the constant complaining about the weather? I saw Al Beck and Rick Johnson struggle at the helm with costs incurred but we always managed, did we not? All of us know racers who'd be back to run one class if it wasn't so expensive, by the time you pay for one class, and licensing, it's over $200 to run one class. And again, fellow friends and racers, don't bafflegab here with we need to cover this, we're worried about the grids, I've seen and heard it all since the club came back to MRP. Remember, I've been back since day one at Mission and I've heard all this. Yes, the club is better financially but at the cost of membership. I'd rather see double the grids at the same total fees, and it's time the racers got a reduction in the costs. We can drop the fees for any given weekend and if the grids grow, we've lost nothing. And if the grids don't grow, then I've been wrong for umpteen years and I'll apologize to every exec I've ever pestered. But enough excuses, I'd like to see a projected cost for paving, the electronic upgrade or any outstanding needs so the club can see where it stands financially, and then let the racers have a say in a cost cutting weekend, they've put the money in the bank, not some mysterious donor.
     
  15. Andrew Marles

    Andrew Marles Moderator

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    Hey Ted, just FYI, I guess you weren't there that day, but we did try dropping fees in Sept of 2015. We dropped them by 50%, still had less than 30 racers turn up; at those levels break-even point was 80 racers. Also, we had *free* races that year, and a whopping 4 bikes gridded up. So it isn't that it hasn't been tried, it's that it was tried and it made no appreciable difference. What I do know the Exec has done is keep race fees exactly the same for the past 8 years (since I joined the club) despite significant increases in event costs, specifically ambulance and insurance which are the two biggest fixed costs after track rental. It's the time that the volunteers and exec have donated to the club by running the schools and trackdays that has put the money in the bank. Any time you don't acknowledge that you do the volunteers a serious disservice.
     
  16. ducatigirl

    ducatigirl Moderator WMRC Exec

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    In addition to what Andrew mentioned, we also restructured the license fee to include the gate pass. It may seem like a small savings per racer, but it adds up to a substantial decrease in gate revenue for the club.
    My point being, efforts are being made, despite our continuously increasing costs.
    And I believe our efforts are making a difference to the grids. We are at 90 licenses issued as of today and I expect we will be well over the 100 mark after the first round. That is more than double the number issued 4 years ago.
     
  17. bigga_boy

    bigga_boy Livin' The Dream WMRC President

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    excellent points Andrew and Pam. People seem to forget the details of insurance, ambulance, track rental and associated costs to running a day or even the season.

    Ted, if you would like price breakdowns for what we have spent, look up in the previous minutes or i personally invite you to a general meeting. they happen every 2nd Tuesday of the month, we discuss everything then.

    From me....THANK YOU, to all the volunteers, corner workers, and executives that put in all of our time to trackdays, race school (now 3days) and track setup/down, all the thankless hours we all put in to these events to make them happen.
    90 licenses issued, race school #1 sold out and trackday pre-sales selling quickly. i think we are off to an AMAZING season.

    how many days Pam?
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2018
  18. andre331

    andre331 New Member

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    Hi everyone, as far as I recall the weekend in 2015 when the prices were dropped significantly was a monsoon with rainfall that made the crash truck look like a U-boat surfacing. How about trying It again for a weekend when the weather is expected to be favorable? ie aug 11-12 ? If it fails to bring out more than the average grids we can sell tickets to watch Ted being dipped in bbq sauce and then slowly lowered into a mr. turtle pool full of ants. We could make at least 10 or 20 bucks ?
     
  19. Andrew Marles

    Andrew Marles Moderator

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    This is getting a bit out of hand. Any further discussion of club fees, finances or operations should be brought up at one of our monthly meetings, not at the track and not online.
     
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