Meeting Minutes from November 19, 2012

Discussion in 'WMRC Meeting Minutes' started by G-Force, Nov 22, 2012.

  1. Mike Thompson

    Mike Thompson High Side Racing

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    Ambulance

    There was a very good point brought up at the meeting about having the qualification and having experience. I would rather have people on site that are dealing with injuries everyday even if they hold a lower ticket than the Life support people. I have great respect for the Life support people and what they do but sometimes you just can't replace experience. I hope we never put cost in front of safety. After the incident with Randy I know a lot of racers including myself have been torn on who we should have at the track watching over us. I know the excutive will look long and hard at this and make the right decision for the racers. I am very upset to hear that Andre was stopped at the gate and told no more help was required when he is a very qualified person with experience dealing with life threating issues.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2012
  2. kingston

    kingston New Member

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    Hey Andre, If we happend to have bcas guys at the track that weren't ALS parametics, would they have the authority to call the air-ambulance, or would they also have to call in the ALS before they could make the call.
     
  3. Ryan Whittle

    Ryan Whittle Rider of Orange V-Twins

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    It was my understanding that the Life Support people are in fact paramedics and they work for Life Support on the side. There seems to be a lot of people jumping to conclusions here.

    I grabbed this off of lifesupport's website:

    http://www.lifesupporttransport.com/notice

    LIFESUPPORT Emergency Medical Services provides out-of-hospital emergency medical, first aid, standby medical and on-site healthcare solutions, including:

    •Paramedics (Basic Life Support & Advanced Life Support)
    •Occupational First Aid (OFA III) Attendants
    •Critical Care Registered Nurses
    •Ambulances
    •Emergency Medevac (Helicopter & Fixed Wing)
    •Mobile Treatment Centres
    •First Aid Rooms & Trailers
    •On Site Clinics
    Service delivery areas include:

    •Natural Resource Development
    •Hydro Development & Line Work
    •Forestry & Wildland Fire Fighting
    •Roadworks, Bridge Construction & Remote Site Development
    •Mining & Mineral Exploration
    •Oil & Gas Exploration & Development
    •Pipeline Construction
    •Defense

    AGAIN, not sure who was working the day of Randy's accident, but there seems to be people jumping to the conclusion that it was just a bunch of first aid attendants.
     
  4. kingston

    kingston New Member

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    All i know is the first ambulance guys, after checking me out, said we need to call in the advanced life support , the second ambulance that came, after checking me out said we need the medivac (air-ambulance). You would think who ever life support was giving us would have the training and authority to be able to make that call for the medivac ?


    We should be clearing up exactly what we're gettimg from Life support in this type of situation so membership and exec. can make the decision who we want to go with.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012
  5. Ryan Whittle

    Ryan Whittle Rider of Orange V-Twins

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    OK Randy, that seems to make more sense now. I would guess that since Lifesupport is private, they can't call in a helicopter, but knew you needed to be transported and had serious injuries. I assume from what John says that the direction to call 911 was immediately made with the instruction to send ALS personnel with the ambulance. Since the ambulance people are the ones making the call to get a helicopter, they assessed you first, then made the call for a chopper as the 911 operator isn't going to dispatch a helicopter based on the direction of anybody over the phone, they want their own people to make that call.

    I'd like to get their side of the story, but if this means they can't call for a helicopter themselves, that the minutes saved by having BCAS on site rather than private would be worth going for, otherwise we would need to figure out amechanism for being able to get air transport that much sooner.

    From the research I did when we were trying to find a replacement for BCAS, I have confidence in the abilities of the lifesupport staff, what Randy's crash brings to light for me is that they may not be able to make the call for air transport and in the event of a serious crash, valuable time could be lost.

    But hey, I'm just a bean counter trying to understand the situation so we don't jump to conclusions and have the best possible care for our racers.
     
  6. jcathie

    jcathie Member

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    I think I can piece together some sort of chronology now:


    1. Randy bins it
    2. Marshal asks for the race to be stopped and requests the ambulance
    3. Life Support requests a 9-1-1 call
    4. I call BCAS and can't really provide much information to dispatch
    5. BCAS attends
    6. BCAS calls for ALS car from BCAS dispatch (I think they did. Or BCAS dispatch sent it anyway)
    7. ALS crew requests Medevac from BCAS dispatch
    8. Randy gets a helicopter ride.

    Just to clarify, Life Support could have requested a Medevac. I think Andre stated a civilian can request a Medevac from BCAS dispatch.

    I've got a couple ideas (look out everyone, I've got ideas again :spin: ) that I'm going to work on. I've already sent one to Scott and I need to work on another 1 or 2. Randy, I think we have a great dialogue going on this and it's unfortunate you had to go through what you did to get us to this point but we are going to learn from it and hopefully improve our response.
     
  7. kingston

    kingston New Member

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    Bingo! Ryan. And thanks John, you knew more of what was going on at that time than most. I hope the exec. is taking in some of this conversation, i know they care about it as much as we do.


    I was hoping Andre would get back to us on whether a non ALS bcas crew would be able to directly call for the air, or would they also have to wait for an ALS. It seems likely the Life Support company my not be able to, untill they get a bcas ALS.

    Does that make sense?
     
  8. andre331

    andre331 New Member

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    I tried to post detailed answers to all the above questions, but It didnt go through. First I dont think the club is aware that private ambulance companies in bc are not licenced to transport to hospital. so while is not a big deal to wait for bcas to transport someone with a non life theatening injury but In the case of someone like randy time is critical!

    John, a civilian cant directly call for a medivac but if you can give dispatch enough info to believe one will be needed, they will send it. Off duty bcas personell can request a medivac or ground als and if available they will be sent.

    with a bcas unit on standby we would get immediater access and comunication to the highest level of care possible. Immediate transport if required and I think foe a little more money we will get a lot more peace of mind. if any of the exec wants to call me to answer more questions that would be fine
     
  9. Ryan Whittle

    Ryan Whittle Rider of Orange V-Twins

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    Hi Andre, as far as I'm concerned (and I'm sure the executive agrees), cost is not an issue. It's a matter of having reliable quality care to the racers.

    To some extent, I feel a bit of loyalty to Life Support because they bailed us out when there was a labour disturbance with BCAS (not trying to get political at all), when I went through trying to find alternate care so we could keep racing, I found there were a number of companies that were half as qualified as Lifesupport who were gouging everybody trying to make a quick buck (one was as high as $4,000/day).

    With that being said, I always worked really well with the BCAS crew and Ron Ford was great to deal with. I would feel safe on track with either crew.
     
  10. ctardi

    ctardi New Member

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    I attempted to weigh in on this during the meeting, but my arm got tired.

    I had the pleasure of using our on track ambulance services this year. It was not nearly as serious of a situation as some others have had, but having been an ofa for the last 5 years as well has having more high angle rescue experience than I would like, I am incredibly picky of the care that I receive.

    The attendants were very good about being cautious of one of my injuries. I had bonked my head, and I was happy with the assessment that the gave for that. I was not happy with them saying that I had a serious head injury, and needed to be driven directly to hospital. If I had a paitent that I determined had a serious head injury, weather I was correct or not, they do NOT get brought to the hospital by anyone other than myself, another attendant, or an ambulance.

    Besides the concussion, I did some damage to a couple of ribs. I did not notice this until I tried to remove my suit while I was sitting in the ER waiting room. Why was my suit still done up? I'm not sure how you can say that you checked someone for injuries through a leather suit and back protector.

    To me this says that the attendant I had was qualified, but perhaps not very experienced. If we switch to BCAS, as well as gaining rapid access to airlift, we will also have paramedics with experience, and hopefully motorcycle crash experience. I could care less about the cost. If a race day costs me an extra $10, 15, 20, I'm probably not going to notice.
     
  11. kingston

    kingston New Member

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    Ok , now with all this additional info, thanks Andre, i agree that BCAS is the only way. Ryan did a good job securing Life Support while the strike was on, but with all this info why would we choose any one but BCAS ?
     
  12. Jacalyn

    Jacalyn Thread killer....

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    From my critical care nursing point of view, I think that having ALS crews on site are the ONLY way to go. How to secure that is still the discussion point, but in my line of work "time is muscle" and for our noggins "time is brain cells" that can't be treated at Mission Memorial Hospital. The airlift to RCH or a closer facility for a CT scan is paramount for catching bleeding (wherever it is) early enough.
     
  13. Jerry

    Jerry New Member

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    Just so ya know, there is a HUGE difference (literally life and death) between "basic helicopter transport" and a "fully equipped MediVac helicopter" - I have flown both.

    And as I explained earlier, all the "fully equipped aircraft" (both fixed wing and helicopter) are under the SOLE control of BCAS.
     

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