Intermediate Superbike - Please Read

Discussion in 'Racing at Mission' started by Ryan Whittle, Aug 23, 2010.

  1. Ryan Whittle

    Ryan Whittle Rider of Orange V-Twins

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    Going over teh results from this past weekend shows that we have some of the strongest grids in Intermediate 600 and Intermediate Open Supersport. However, when you look at Intermiediate Superbike, the grids are about 1/3 of what they are for the 600 and Open class.

    I would like some feedback as to why this is the case and some suggestions on how it can be rectified. Is it due to the combined grid? I have been involved with this club for 5 years now and this is the first time that I can recall there being a significant difference in the grid size for different Intermediate classes.

    Your feedback is greatly appreciated.
     
  2. Jayson

    Jayson Highside Racing

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    Ryan, the feedback I got as I was trying to round up grid fillers last weekend was that most of the eligible riders were worried about getting lapped by the pros or affecting the results. Some of the riders were just too tired and hot, with several dropping out mid afternoon on Sunday.
     
  3. Brett

    Brett Twin Brothers Racing WMRC Exec

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    I'm way too slow and I don't like the combined grids.
     
  4. Jaybo

    Jaybo if you want blood

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    Last round I opted out because of the heat and the cost. I certainly like doing the first superbike race as it's a race before lunch.
     
  5. Ryan Whittle

    Ryan Whittle Rider of Orange V-Twins

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    Would more of you enter if it were not a combined grid?

    I know it was hot out there, I guess we will see in September if the lower grid sizes were an annomaly or not.
     
  6. nac.00

    nac.00 New Member

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    also not a fan of the combined grid....probably would have entered otherwise
     
  7. Jaybo

    Jaybo if you want blood

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    Personally the combined grid doesn't bother me.. it's far more likely to bother the fast guys i'm "racing" against...:behead
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2010
  8. Jacalyn

    Jacalyn Thread killer....

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    Is it possible that some of the newly bumped novices into intermediate don't know that the Superbike race has both Intermediate and Expert categories?

    Just wondering as I know it came as a surprise to me when I realized it was for both groups.
     
  9. Dean Thompson

    Dean Thompson New Member

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    If there's insufficient numbers I understand why they're combined, but I don't like combined grids when there's enough riders to split it up. But if it's raining or too hot I don't race anyways, so who cares what I think, lol. :dance::hump:
     
  10. Ryan Welton

    Ryan Welton No..the other Ryan

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    I tried last year to round up the racers in INT600 and INT Open to join in on the Superbike race and the responses were that it was: A) Too fast = scary to be lapped B) Too much racing in one day when combined with 600, open, 118 etc C) Too expensive to run it as a first class then to add 600 and Open, D) Some riders did not want to run a 12 lap race.

    I think SBK is fairly priced for the track time and the 12 lapper is no big deal as it is usually "over" after 6 or 7 laps. The fitter you are the better!
     
  11. Jayson

    Jayson Highside Racing

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    What race are you watching!!!! Rusty and I had 3 passes in the last 10 corners in SBK2 Sunday!
     
  12. amartin

    amartin Member

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    You could try grouping racers based on capability rather than an appointed/graduated designation?

    This could be accomplished by dropping intermediate and only having novice and expert.

    In the morning there would be a QP. The results would determine the racers grid for all classes he/she enters.

    Then run 'A' & 'B' versions of 600, Open and Superbike.

    Only the 'A' races would pay contingency (which should prevent sandbagging and encourage racers to try harder). Those who don't quite have the times yet would probably end up in the slightly slower 'B' race.

    If 'Classic Supersport' and 'Senior Superbike' could be combined with the '600' and 'Superbike', this approach might even save time during the day.

    Better for *most* racers, potentially cheaper for the sponsors, more exciting for the spectators, and no less money for the club.
     
  13. adam0289

    adam0289 New Member

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    i think we need to accept the fact we do not have enough racers for novice intermediate and expert. I think we need to hold back our novices longer and promote them straight to expert. current intermediates should be given the opportunity to move back to novice if they desire ( until they meet the new slightly higher standard required for expert) the balance of ints. move to expert.
     
  14. Ryan Welton

    Ryan Welton No..the other Ryan

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    Although this last point may be true ["i think we need to accept the fact we do not have enough racers for novice intermediate and expert"] . I believe that this will not encourage more trackday guys and gals to get into racing nor will it solve the issue that many of the intermediates do not want to be on the track with the "fast guys" yet. Everyone wants a class that they can be competitive in. Novice riders currently get 2 races/day and graduated novices may run F118 (if allowed). Our novice grid is full this year and this should lead to a good intermediate group for next season. The expert grid was lean this year too and with a few bumps next season there should be more black numbers out on the track...but those new "experts" may not want to race in Superbike.

    I for one can not wait to get back out there!!!! As soon as my wife lets me that is :(
     
  15. Ryan Welton

    Ryan Welton No..the other Ryan

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    You are both fun to watch because you are both in great shape and are seriously competing. I did not get to see sundays race but the field does usually get streched out or have you not been looking at the results...you two are well ahead of the rest!:bow:

    Chase you next year buddy!
     
  16. amartin

    amartin Member

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    No offence but I think you're missing our point. By qualifying at a certain speed you put yourself among similar paced racers. If anything this should make those intermediates MORE comfortable. Today we have 'intermediates' doing low 13's. We also have 'experts' doing 120's. I'm not saying anything is 'wrong' with those speeds, but its proof that a racers number color has nothing to do with their pace or ability to compete.

    That's a nice idea, but maybe not realistic. When you try to provide that you get a bunch of weird classes with a small handful of bikes in them.
    Unless you're capable of running at the front, you're just out having fun - which is what this should be all about. By having more guys to race with, I would think you'd be having more fun - and it's much better for those watching too. Getting on the grid with half a dozen bikes with 6 or 7 seconds seperating the fastest from the slowest isn't much of a race - its more like a parade.

    Yeah, that's true and unfortunately some of those 'bumped' guys will not race next year. It seems to happen every year and I suspect it will continue to happen. We lost 2 fast experts this year and I know of 2 more that are thinking of quitting next year. I not sure how to prevent it completely but I would think retention should be near the top of the list for this little club.
     
  17. adam0289

    adam0289 New Member

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    what happened to the idea of a bunch of guys showing up with there motorcycles and racing each other. are we really that lame that we need to start with 50 guys (on a good day)first divide them by motorcycle size, then skill level, then by age and now even by lap times(f 118). Not to be a prick but please can someone explain to me what sense of satisfaction comes from winning f118. if there was a hot trophy girl or a bag of money involved i get it.
    can't we all just leave our purses at riders meeting get out there with a 20 rider grid and entertain a crowd. I would think a 12th in this would bring more satisfaction then winning f118.
     
  18. Mel

    Mel Road racer

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    I'm not in it for a hot trophy girl and - God knows - not for the money, but I'd argue that winning any race if the weekend before you finished 2nd, 3rd or 5th against the same riders is an encouraging sign. I hesitate to use the word 'satisfaction' as to me it implies not wanting to improve beyond a certain skill level or ability, and I'd be surprised if any of us don't want to keep improving every time we go out on the track.

    I do take your point, however, and I think some simplification of all the different class structures we have could be necessary.
     
  19. dammyneckhurts

    dammyneckhurts New Member

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    I see in this thread a few mentions of dropping Intermediate and just having Novice and Expert.

    Many moons ago this was exactly how the Westwood Club was, actually it was called Amature and Pro at the time. Somewhere along the way the club changed to add Intermediate.

    At the time there must have been some reason for this....was anyone around when the change was made and remember the reason why?
     
  20. urquhart

    urquhart New Member

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    Canada has Novice, Intermediate and Expert classes. The states simply runs Novice and Expert. It isnt a Westwood Club rule, it is a national one. Why we have the three classes and the states only Novice and Pro? I have no idea. The question was about a single class... all other Intermediate classes seem to have full grids, talking about changing the entire system seems a bit overkill.

    I haven't raced this season but when I did I did not enjoy racing with the Expert classes, many of us were much happier when the usually combined classes were seperated. My only goal one year was to actually complete a race, finally did that at the end of the year but getting lapped every time out simply put, sucks. I have always said as long as you are battling with someone it doesnt matter as it is fun as hell out there. What isnt fun however is knowing the top 5 Experts are going to be on your group any corner and really not wanting to fuck up their season.

    Don't think the midnset isn't different either. F40 was a pretty respectful class, fast guys ran out there but things were really safe. The numbers were down so Senior Superbike was added to the pack, and F40 riders (Experts in here too) got run off the track in T1 more than once. Not the slow guys neither lol ( I was fine, wasnt near the front :)

    Funny how I remember fast guys not racing to avoid being bumped to Expert so they could have a whole year to "win some contingency". Anyone else remember this? You want in with the Pros, get into the top three of your class and your in.

    There are fewer on the grid this year because there are fewer racers, period. I'm not there this year due to money, a few other people are taking a year or two off for the same reasons. As long as they havent sold their bikes they will likely be back.

    Whew, I feel better now :)

    I am sure when Kareem, Ryan and myself are back we will be running in Int Sbk as well as the other classes. I am also sure that a few of the soon to be bumped Novices come up they will join in as well. Should be fine next year, don't do anything drastic in the meantime...

    Since it was asked about, my impression from F118 was to give racers that didn't stand a chance in the highly competitive classes a chance at running at the front. The satisfaction gained from racing comes in many forms, to me finally breaking 1:18 was my satisfaction as that was my first goal. It also gives racers experience passing other people, battling for positions. It is, in essence, a form of bracket racing. Some people used lap timers, this is completely against the spirit of the class and I can't comprehend why someone would do that so I won't try to explain that tactic. I can explain that it is a thrill when your best is 1:19 and you battle for 10 laps with your friends, giving all you can just trying to get DQ'd from the class. For us 1:17 riders it is a great cobwed blower at the start of the season and a great place for others to work on thier skills.

    See you all at the final rounds!
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2010

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