Elimination of Intermediate?

Discussion in 'Racing at Mission' started by Dean, Oct 23, 2011.

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Do you support the elimination of the Intermediate class?

Poll closed Jan 21, 2012.
  1. Yes

    21 vote(s)
    41.2%
  2. No

    29 vote(s)
    56.9%
  3. what's an intermediate?

    1 vote(s)
    2.0%
  1. Dean

    Dean Just a beer league racer

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    Do you support the elimination of the intermediate class? More than once, a few riders have proposed that the Intermediate class is limiting the growth of the club. They propose that there be two classes: Novice and Expert. Once you graduation from Novice, you are an expert. WMRRA and OMRRA run this way, while our Canadian clubs like the EMRA and CMRA do not. Which way would you prefer?

    If you are for or against, can you provide constructive reasoning?

    Thanks
     
  2. ken lalonde

    ken lalonde New Member

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    I agree with Adam. Back when I started racing we had no separation in any classes and grids were huge. And I never heard of any racers not wanting to be with the fast groups. This is racing when you have 25 bike not 4 bikes. Our club is to small to have 3 levels. Race with the right bike for your skill level. If superbike is to fast, race middle weight twins on a SV650 and become a better rider.
     
  3. Bernie32

    Bernie32 Free Highside Demoes

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    Exactly, Two thumbs up and re-name novice Clubman or Sportsman.:\m/:
     
  4. amartin

    amartin Member

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    Yes. A real clubman would be better for new racers - better racing and more track time. Larger grids for experts would be better for everyone.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2011
  5. ted

    ted asshat

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    I'm with Kenny, Am and Pro. We don't need to rename Am, why muddy the waters?

    2cents
     
  6. vanilla18

    vanilla18 New Member

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    Initially I didn't like the idea because I thought it was scare off guys but after reading adams point I think it would be good for the club. As long as there is the clubman class, racers that don't feel comfortable racing with the super fast guys hopefully wont disappear. Its no different then the current superbike setup aswell as the occasional 600/open ss races that got combine. Im assuming that clubman refers to a level of an existing class ie. clubman 600 ss or clubman superbike or something along those lines and not be its own individual class?
     
  7. dasein

    dasein WMRRA #24

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    Has to happen. Sooner the better. I like adam's solution as well.
     
  8. tt600

    tt600 New Member

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    sounding like a good idea....how would contigency fit into this? keeping in mind it becomes a safety issue also.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2011
  9. JIMMY

    JIMMY New Member

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    Getting rid of AM is a terrible idea
    If the issue is grid size just run Am and Exp together. Done.
    Seems to me by eliminating the class we're just pissing away a ton of contingency money and taking away yet another reason for a whole bunch of people to show up.
    The progression from Novice to Am to Exp. works great, it allows guys to fight for meaningful wins and tire money for a couple years while they get faster. Why does this need to be fixed?
    I think Novice should get trophies and Exp SBK should be a money class too BTW.
    This club needs to encourage more members and closer racing, getting rid of AM will do neither.
     
  10. JIMMY

    JIMMY New Member

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    Well if you really believe that then lets let the Am's decide, after all it is there class.
    Any way you slice it there will be less contigency available. Now we have money in Am 600 and Am open. I would suggest we go further and score Am SBK too.
    IMHO the way grow our premiere EXP SBK class is to make it a real money class.
     
  11. Ryan Whittle

    Ryan Whittle Rider of Orange V-Twins

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    I agree with James.

    Adam, I'm a little confused, if you rename Novice Clubman, are we not just eliminating Novice. Also, Adam are your thoughts that by eliminating Am, we are going to push more riders to start on an SV or older 600 or something more clubman like rather than newer bikes? If that is the case, then I would tend to agree with you.

    I would strongly suggest that if the decision were made to eliminate Am, that the decision be made this year, but not take effect until 2013. That would give riders a bit more time to sort out which bike they will ride in the future, rather than only 1 winter.
     
  12. Jaybo

    Jaybo if you want blood

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    I'm not sure about removing Intermediate. Quite frankly you can stop reading now, As i'll continue racing with my club regardless of what happens and do so with a smile.

    From my own personal, limited, close minded experiences I'm happy with the current model.
    My thoughts: Personally I happen to think it's safer to have novice racers racing in their own class.
    The Intermediate class gives us mere mortals a chance to feel like a real racer by potentially gaining podiums, wins, & a shot at a "real" championship.
    I rather like the three levels. Perhaps I like a challenge? I had to claw my way out novice and now i'm trying to claw my way of intermediate.. If I ever (as I hope to) become an Expert, there will be a sense of accomplishment because I had to earn that class or title.

    Contingency -what's that? :p

    I'm all for growing the club, but I don't really see how modeling the club after what's done in the states will bring us any more spectators or racers. I think the number one thing that's against us is the track itself.. So many people have such a misguided, poorly informed opinion about where we choose to race.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2011
  13. Kyle13

    Kyle13 New Member

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    I like this idea mostly because the only way to get faster is to ride with the big boys. However2 concerns come up 1 is safety. The newer racers need to be predictable and safe. Also there is the disappointment of the racers not running the low teens not even having a change to win or come close.
     
  14. Dean Thompson

    Dean Thompson New Member

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    I prefer the 3 levels of advancement. Who cares what the US tracks do? The WCC is something you'd have to consider too, as the other clubs have a Novice class. Continue to combine classes and levels when required, that works fine. As for Kenny wanting bigger grids, yeah it'll make guys like him look even better when they say they beat 25 guys instead of 5, but besides the front running 3 or 4 guys who run in the 1:10's, it'll suck for everyone else who has no hope of running with the lead group. And the comment about buying a bike that is "more your speed" isn't practical for everyone. Some people can't afford to upgrade/downgrade depending on the speed of the others in the class they run with. The idea of changing Novice to a Clubman class where they can race for points and trophies sounds good. But I vote leave it at 3 tiers.
     
  15. tt600

    tt600 New Member

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    lance,there was shit load of money from michelin....helped me pay for tires,reg.etc.and my bike wasn't even running well this year....lol.what's the real issue here? grid size for expert classes? everyone has valid points here.just wondering what the benefits are of changing the system.I'm interested to see what michelin is paying for 2 classes in the u.s.(novice/pro).i think it's great that michelin is spreading the wealth.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2011
  16. bsa_414

    bsa_414 WMRC Formula Classic Rep

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    I also agree with the three tiers. And that lap time categorization for riders is just pure bullshit. The three levels refer to how you handle and ride your bike ie. your SKILL level. Not your lap times. And trust me, some guys are novices for a reason. Myself and George have firsthand experience with this.

    Don't change the name of the novice class or start to score it. It does not give the guys/gals any incentive to "claw" their way out of it. Start at the bottom and work your way up.
     
  17. amartin

    amartin Member

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    The facts are we've lost Mark Carmichael, Mark Kruger, Oliver Jervis, Alan Schmidt, Andrew Mckeachie, Chris Topp, Daren James, Tyler Regan and a few others from expert in the past couple years. No new racers or graduated am's have come close to filling these guy's shoes. Maybe its expert we should be doing away with. Would that make everyone feel better?
     
  18. Dean

    Dean Just a beer league racer

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    Austen, we lost those racers for a variety of reasons, NONE of which were related to the elimination of the intermediate class. Let's go over why those racers left so that everyone has a full understanding.

    Mark Carmichael - Cannot afford racing, no free bike to ride, wanted more time with family.
    Mark Kruger - no free bike to ride/sponsorship
    Oliver Jervis - no free bike to ride/sponsorship
    Alan Schmidt - no free bike to ride/sponsorship available in Canada. Cannot bring bike over border.
    Andrew Mckeachie - cannot afford racing, stopped everywhere.
    Chris Topp - not sure of his reasons.
    Darren James - racing nationals only, bikes usually cannot pass sound at Mission
    Tyler Regan - Having a baby, taking time off and re-evaluating priorities.

    Also in that time, we've lost most of Mid-life crisis and their guys. Only really James is a frequent rider now. Patrick rides a little bit. A lot of racers that quit cannot afford the motor work, the race gas, etc to keep up with the experts in 600 and open (that's my personal view on it).

    In that time, we've graduated quite a few to black numbers, including myself. However, many of those experts found it to be far more fun to race in a slower class like middleweight twins where everyone is in a very tight pack. Take Bez Cajee for example as well as Simon Field. Bez was running low 11s, and now runs 17s based on his bike.

    We've graduated 7 riders to expert so far, and there still may be a few more that move to expert before the new season starts.

    I'm not sure the elimination of the Intermediate class will help the club, nor am I sure it would generate more sponsorship. We'll have to poll the businesses that offer contingency and sponsorship to the club.

    I'll state this one last thought though. I think as a club, we need to start looking seriously at how we graduation Novices and move them up through the ranks quicker in this club. I think the novices need more track time, but I also realize that we have to build them up to it too. Too much track time without conditioning, and they'll fade on the track and make mistakes. I'm sure you'd all be pissed off if someone who is new and not conditioned to the rigors of racing, fades and t-bones you going into turn 1, or anywhere else on the track.
     
  19. tt600

    tt600 New Member

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    Couldn't have said it better myself dean.I have been on both sides of the fence in my short 3yrs.of racing.
     
  20. JIMMY

    JIMMY New Member

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    A little off topic but, OMRRA supplies, and requires to be worn over the leathers a florescent green tee shirt when Novices are on track. It is a cheap, effective way to let guys know when they are beside a Novice in a practice session.
    And the Novice gets a souvenir tee shirt. Win, win.
     

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