Dazed and confused

Discussion in 'Ask the Exec!' started by bsa_414, Oct 24, 2014.

  1. ducatigirl

    ducatigirl Moderator WMRC Exec

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    Huh, I was at that meeting. What I heard was that the executive and the rules committee are separate and that if someone has a suggestion for the rules committee to submit it to them. As in, write it down, email it, whatever. But that the request should be addressed to the rules committee.
    So, I didn't know Alex could read minds, "Our president had no idea that there is a dedicated area on the forums for rule book discussions", of if indeed, you could "make this shit up". :)
     
  2. Dean Thompson

    Dean Thompson New Member

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    Maybe try the WMRC Facebook page, it probably gets more traffic than the forum. If a firm decision isn't made regarding the 250/300 discussion rules soon I'm just going for it and building up my 250. I don't think the dyno has been out in a long time so chances of getting busted for too much power is almost nil. :devil:
     
  3. tt600

    tt600 New Member

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    i sure needed a good laugh tonight....
     
  4. bsa_414

    bsa_414 WMRC Formula Classic Rep

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    We heard exactly the same thing. Am I ever glad that my memory didn't fail me, 'cause here goes:

    The rule book and the bylaws of the club are the cornerstones of our club. How, and what we change is part of a fundamental process that affects the health and growth of our club. Changes have to be beneficial to current and future members, fair and transparent.
    In the past, there have been many abuses to this process. To name one - mixing executives and the committee. Let me spell it out - the link issue. It divided the club, and as far as I am concerened was badly handled by the executive. I will remind you that I walked out before the vote, because I refused to be associated with that farce.

    We have worked long and hard to introduce a new process that is open to scrutiny and discussion, before changes get applied to the rule book.

    The process is as follows:

    Rule book proposals get posted on the forum in the 'Rulebook proposal' section.
    Each rule book change must have a problem it intends to fix, and a description of how the change fixes it.
    Proposals can be openly discussed by the membership.
    Two weeks before the committee meets to vote on issues, the section is closed off to new posts but not to discusion.
    Only changes in that section can be introduced/discussed/voted on by the committee.

    This was the first year we tried this and it was fairly successful. Continued success of this approach consists of educating members (existing and future) on the process and making sure they get involved in it.

    Is it too much to ask that the president of our club be familiar with this process and promote it by answering appropriately? I think not.
    Answer this. How is writing something down and handing it to a committee member open to scrutiny and discussion? How does the general membership know how and what problem it fixes.
    But I'll let the membership make up their own minds.

    Once again thanks for confirming what he said.

    cheers
    alex

    p.s As in write it down, email, whatever? Ok, ok, ok I'm just itching to say, so I will.... F%$%ing hell...
     
  5. ducatigirl

    ducatigirl Moderator WMRC Exec

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    If the issue you are referring to is with respect to the idea of tire warmers in pre-grid, I fail to see how this is a matter for the rule committee. Further to that, the current president also said that it was a fine idea that should be visited by the executive for the 2015 season so that it could be discussed with operations officials and any liability issues be addressed.

    Regarding your outline of the process for proposing rule changes, it was the current executive is who implemented this process, and would therefore, be very familiar with said process. So you are criticizing the executive for creating the process you are trying to promote?

    I fear that my words will be twisted regardless of what I say, so I'm out of this discussion.
     
  6. Dean

    Dean Just a beer league racer

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    I'll just place this here, while I'm on vacay...over 50% of the paid members of this club do not frequent the forums, nor facebook. Over 60% do not pre-register. Most are not that into computers, but they sure are into motors and racing.

    I used to think that these forums were important. Social media has pretty much made these forums not quite as needed, but it does offer a good place to organize the thoughts of the groups.

    Before you guys really start looking at what is good for the club and people, remember that you have racers, many of whom just show up on race day and try to race. They don't read forums. They don't read the website, or not often. They don't live on facebook, twitter, linkedin, instagram, or pinterest.

    I look at the stats of who visits, how many times per day, where the visitors come from, etc. We have metrics for that on the facebook page as well as these forums. I can easily run those stats on these forums because they run on my hardware and software. I donate a LOT of my time to run them, police them, moderate them, and keep them free of spam. with that said, this forum gets about 40 unique visitors per day.

    This is NOT the voice of the racers, nor the most effective place to reach the racers. For that, you need a monthly meeting, that most racers do not give a shit about. They come to race, not go to meetings. They have families, jobs, etc that will all take WAY more priority than this hobby. I've been to meetings where there were 4 members that would show up, 3 of which where race day staff/members.

    So I have a question for both candidates now: How do you fix apathy? Because that's exactly what this club suffers from.
     
  7. bsa_414

    bsa_414 WMRC Formula Classic Rep

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    I know the name of the thread is 'Dazed and Confused', but I wish you wouldn't take it literally...

    Thanks Pam, I can always count on you...

    Please see the following:
    http://www.westwoodracing.com/forums/showthread.php?6321-Rule-Change-Rule-Changes

    Here - I'll do one better. If the current executive implemented this process, surely it must have been discussed at an executive meeting and voted on. The executive (in case you don't know) is bound by the bylaws to keep minutes of these meetings - that would be Article 7 of our by-laws.

    I don't really have to ask any questions on here on what the executive has worked on or is working on. This is a democracy, and as such the 'common' people are protected by our by-laws, specifically Article 6 Section 5 which states:
    The books and records of the Club may be inspected by the Racing and/or Social members upon application to the Executive Committee who shall fix the time and place for inspection to take place within three days of application.

    I will point that this includes everything.... books, accounts, details on how club assets were acquired and/or disposed, minutes, registration slips (ever wonder why tech keeps a copy?) etc etc. No time limit on how far back this goes either.

    All one has to do is ask for it. What do you think is going to happen?

    Once again - thanks Pam for opening the door...

    cheers
    alex


    p.s i'll give you this - you've got balls going toe to toe with a rule book guy.... Wait for it.... F%$%ing hell...
     
  8. Dean Thompson

    Dean Thompson New Member

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    Looks like it's time for the troll to post a photo: the fuc.jpg
     
  9. Marbod

    Marbod Rubbin's racin'

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    I hope this long post will not immediately scream " tl;dr " (google it, Alex :) ) to everyone.
    We all know it's a good( and needed) thing for people to be passionate about the WMRC, however, some people are getting pretty lathered up on these threads, perhaps save some of that fire for your nomination speeches at the AGM?

    To address a couple of specific points regarding the rulebook procedure(and as the 2014 rulebook committee chair and longtime rules committee member -I also haven't missed a single race event at Mission since 2001-I think I'm qualified to do so):

    I have been advocating for greater rulebook change transparency and more membership at large involvement(i.e. members getting to vote online on proposed rulebook changes with attached pros/cons/implications that have been received and discussed by the rulebook committee, online discussion of said rule change proposal for a time on the forum, no need to list all of them here as Alex has already done so for me in a post further up, thank you Alex) for a number of years with past executive boards. I had discussed this with the current executive earlier in the year and the plan was to implement this for the 2015 season. I must also admit that I "borrowed" a lot of these ideas from OMRRA where I did a lot of racing in the past.

    As I said, I have been on the rules committee for a long time and even do I agree with the point about the "suspension link" issue( the handling of and "solution" to that I strongly disagreed with and voted against at the time -I was "only" a rulebook committee member then, not the chair-), I would strongly advise against that particular issue as an example to be used against the current executive in this election. Over the years I have seen- and quit my rulebook committee position over- other incidents of self-serving rulebook changes by some of the same persons who apparently will be putting themselves forward in this election as candidates. This is NOT me taking sides either way but rather wanting to emphasize that human nature being what it is once self interest is involved, greater transparency is one way to guard against this happening over and over again.

    One thing I agree with and do see the need for, is faster adoption of new rules for the next season so people can buy/prep bikes. I would propose going forward to have a rulebook committee meeting approx. 2-3 weeks after the last round of the season and go over things that were learned from the past season as well as discuss whatever known at the time forthcoming bike model changes that might impact the rules/classes for next year and come up with a preliminary list of recommendations.

    This would be followed by some online discussions/input/proposals from the general membership-when the past season is still fresh in everyone's memory and people are still more involved-, with a final list of rulebook changes to be voted on online by the membership at large by December 1st(exact date to be determined but I personally would definitely want it before Dec 15).

    Sorry about the wall of text , but the rulebook committee is something I've spent a lot of time on over the years and is near and dear to my heart(black lump of coal that it is).

    There are many other challenges facing this club but the biggest one -and the one we are least able to face, no matter who will win this upcoming election- is the lack of race dates we get every year. I've been through the " I think next season we'll get better dates " wishful thinking phase so many times now since we started getting to short end of the stick from the Sportscar Club the last 6 or 7 years or so, that the grain of salt I take these promises now with has grown to a boulder. Without having at least 4-5 weekends throughout May to September , our struggles to survive -let alone prosper again- will remain the same no matter who is running the club and how well intentioned they are.

    It's obvious at this point there are two "parties" running for office this upcoming election. Even though I have spoken to both candidates for president each one's "plan" is still being held somewhat closely to their chest(???)I certainly wouldn't mind at least knowing who is running for what position in the upcoming election. Instead of having people we may have not seen in years or even perhaps never, to jump out of the woodwork and ask people to vote for them on the basis of a ~ 1 minute speech I feel it would be nice to know what to expect. This is not just in relation to the people involved with Tony's "group" , but also with Scott's. Until I read Jason Hanson's post this morning, all I knew was that Scott was running for re-election but had no idea if all/any of the other exec's from last year planned on running again.
     
  10. Dean Thompson

    Dean Thompson New Member

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    It was so long it seemed like I read it twice (double post Marbod ;)) but it was a good read. It's a bit of a soup-sandwich the club is in, with the ongoing crappy dates/lack of dates/small turn outs and the current lack of leadership in the club. Over the years I've voiced online and at riders meetings what I thought were good ideas to help with certain areas that needed improvement, but was either shot down on the spot by exec members saying "tried that, doesn't work" or it just was ignored completely. Being from Van Isle I will not run for an executive position as the cost of travel to monthly meetings is too high. But there is a definite disconnect between club members concern/ideas and the relevant executive positions, which needs to be looked at before it's beyond repair. I know from speaking with newer racers that one of the common complaints is the lack of a friendly/accepting/family feel to the paddock. Very few people pay attention to newbs and introduce themselves or say thanks for coming out. They go to WMRRA events and feel accepted much quicker. Just having new racers put up their hands during the riders meeting isn't creating a warm fuzzy feeling. The weather is shitty and winter is upon us, so I know many racers get in the winter blues or SAD, so this is typically the time of the year we all like to vent our feelings online, lol. Better then Ted's old Friday night drunk rants (in a way). Keep the rants coming!
     
  11. bsa_414

    bsa_414 WMRC Formula Classic Rep

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    LMAO. tl;dr on the duplicate post. I just couldn't read it AGAIN!

    If you wanted to know who's running for re-election all you had to do is read the minutes. No shit. It's actually in there...
     
  12. Ryan Whittle

    Ryan Whittle Rider of Orange V-Twins

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    Marbod you have hit the nail absolutely square on the head. As a relatively long time member of the club and one who spent a lot of time on the executive, I can say that apathy has certainly crept in. I have to also say that in my opinion, what is tearing this club apart is the composition of the executive. With the exception of a few years, it has seemed that the club has been run by a group of like minded people, often a group of friends. While it produces a cohesive group on the executive, it also has the side effect of other members feeling as if they are ignored or not represented.

    Being on the executive is incredibly stressful, and often feels as if everyone is against you. I know during my 5 years on the executive I went from an enthusiastic member trying to effect change to a somewhat depressed, apathetic member with a chip on my shoulder that had on more than one occasion ripped into friends at the track who certainly didn't deserve it (Marbod and Ken come to mind)

    If I had my wish, I would really like to see Tony join Scott on the executive. Having a combination of continuity and fresh blood can only help this club. Of those that have said they are running for executive, I would really like to see Scott, Tony and Jason Hanson on the executive. Titles are almost inconsequential. A strong executive works together and doesn't get hung up on titles and personal agendas.

    Finally, I wouldn't be being honest without saying that Alex, I am really disappointed in your behavior on the forums over the past year +. You seem to have a personal agenda to antagonize, mobilize, and do all that you can to take shots at the executive. I know you will reply looking for examples and I'm not going to get dragged into that. You know what you are doing and many other members can see through it. I know you think you are doing the right thing by holding the executive accountable, but in reality all you are doing is draining the energy from current executives, stirring the pot and doing more to ensure that there is a divide among members rather than bring them together. I'm not sure if you have a personal issue with Scott outside of the club, but I would really like to see you bury the hatchet.

    In summary, I'd really like to see us pull together as a club, rather than continuously changing tack with wholesale changes of the executive.

    Looking forward to the AGM, hopefully we can find a way as a club to live together, rather than die alone.
     
  13. bsa_414

    bsa_414 WMRC Formula Classic Rep

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    Ryan, no argument from me on this one. In the last year and a half I completely lost my faith in the executive's abilty to run the club. Do I antagonize certain people? Yes. Do I mobilize people? You'd be a fool to follow me... Do I openly criticize actions of certain executive members? Yes. Do I have a personal issue with Scott outside the club? No.

    cheers
    alex
     
  14. *Jay*

    *Jay* Member WMRC Exec

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    "The secret of change is to focus all of your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new." - socrates

    I challenge all of you to create a better club for 2015. If you want to bring up some negative aspect of the current state of the club, or another negative aspect of the rules / procedures / etc, provide a suggestion for how to change it and improve the club for the rest of us.
     
  15. Dean Thompson

    Dean Thompson New Member

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    Ya! Socrates for WMRC president!!
     
  16. Ryan Whittle

    Ryan Whittle Rider of Orange V-Twins

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    Is he related to Testaclese?
     
  17. Wblairlayton

    Wblairlayton Faster and Faster

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    I am not going to quote your post Marbod, but I am intending on running for the Secretary Position on the Executive as it is a role I can fit into my schedule and perform well for the club. I think that it is a role that can prepare members for more extensive roles in the club executive and I hope that Jason builds on the experience he has gained this past season as club secretary and steps up to a more senior role, possibly even Treasurer or Promotions Director or VP.

    I have extensive personal experience in not for profit organizations and clubs, including the many years I was actively involved with Toastmasters International, Public Speaking Clubs here in Vancouver where I served in every club role from Club Secretary to President and acted for a period of time as Area Governor in the Vancouver Area for Toastmasters Region,

    I believe I have something to offer the club executive and much more importantly I believe I have something to offer the members of the club to aid and assist in the rebuilding of confidence, member participation and the social camaraderie requisite to a healthy atmosphere all around.

    See you all at the AGM!!

    Enjoy the ride, and best regards,
    Blair
     
  18. Bernie

    Bernie Ranter Extrodinaire

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    No executive can function if it has to report every single decision it wants to make, and get a vote. That's why you elect them!
    Otherwise, there is no point in having an executive! It is not practical or possible to function like that.
    I don't mean there can't be transparency, but there are limits to daily reporting ;-)

    As per Scott's posting, you guys have no idea how lucky you are to have John Cathie invest so much time in the club. He's the bomb. Just keep sugar drinks away from him, or he gets gnarly!

    Unless the club as a whole commits to proper announcing, running a quick program (no long delays if possible), and actively courting all shops in the LML and Valley to some kind of minimal involvement (posters, free tickets, like us on facebook, etc. you can promo all you like. You need them to come BACK! If the line up at the gate is too long, add that to your list.
    Bad announcing, no announcing, this has killed the club more than you realise. Ryan and Ted for the win, plus a helper. Whatever it takes. It's business, separate it from volunteering. A good announcer brings in 20s, 50s and hundreds of fans.
    Long delays in the rain or scorching sun, watch what crowd there is leave in droves!
     
  19. NFGRacing

    NFGRacing New Member

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    You call that a rant? More or a runt... Now get up there on that 45 gallon drum and give us a rant!

    Hey brother I see things haven't changed at the club. I have purposely stayed away till now licking my wounds.....

    But I've missed a lot of you old timers and was thinking next year I might start hanging out doing what I can to help. Kind of a "drop in" sort of thing. So for now I'll lurk in the background like Ted. Who by the way I still do see ever now and again. He's so dreamy!
     
  20. Dean Thompson

    Dean Thompson New Member

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    Hey Stef, it would be cool to see you out!
     

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