250 Production 2015

Discussion in 'Rule Book Proposals' started by Dean Thompson, Sep 29, 2014.

  1. Andrew Marles

    Andrew Marles Moderator

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    We really need to be careful about this. I feel that opening up the rules helped to kill the 650 twins class, and it would be a shame for that to happen with the 250s. If anything, I think the club should be looking for ways to limit the performance of the 300s rather than forcing people to build their motors to keep up. This happens all the time in motorsports to keep different displacements on equal terms.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2014
  2. Dean Thompson

    Dean Thompson New Member

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    The 650 Twins class was ruined by not having horsepower limits, so there are stock SV650's making 65HP racing against superbike built engined SV700's with close to 100HP. Allowing a 250cc to add a few HP to be closer to the 300cc bikes doesn't seem like an issue to me. I'm 215lbs naked, so every HP I can scrounge is important :devil:
     
  3. Dean Thompson

    Dean Thompson New Member

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    I for one would actually like to know who makes up the Rules Committee. The website has the position on the list but it's empty. I don't think there's been a single reply from an official in regards to this ongoing subject. I guess this can be one of the gripes brought up at the AGM.
     
  4. Ryan Whittle

    Ryan Whittle Rider of Orange V-Twins

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    The only change that has been made to the MWT class over the last 10 years was to allow Ducati 748. How a 748 is "middleweight" is beyond me, but such is life.
     
  5. Wblairlayton

    Wblairlayton Faster and Faster

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    The 748 was disallowed from MWT.
     
  6. Ryan Whittle

    Ryan Whittle Rider of Orange V-Twins

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    After it somehow got in to the rulebook for 1 year.
     
  7. cookie

    cookie Two Smokin'

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    I personally think it's important that the rules prevent a class that has been developed as grass-roots racing and a relatively inexpensive way to get started from turning into a "biggest wallet wins" situation chasing guys who can't afford all the go-fast goodies away.
     
  8. Marbod

    Marbod Rubbin's racin'

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    That is a complete exaggeration, Dean. My lil' old SV650( now ridden by Ryan Whittle) only made 91.6 hp. :)

    I do feel that the idea posted previously about keeping the new crop of 300's(320 in Yamaha's case) to a Superstock spec and maybe opening up the HP limits for the 250's to match what a STOCK 300 puts out would be a fair compromise until more and more 300s appear and at that point we could consider splitting up the bikes into 2 different classes.

    As a shop owner selling brake guards and quickshifters I personally do not think they are needed in that class(but I wouldn't oppose a brake-only- guard requirement if the membership at large wants it) . I feel that same way about the brake upgrades being floated. Given the light weight of the bikes and the finite traction available from the skinny front tires, sticking a $300-$750USD (for a billet Brembo http://www.tawperformance.com/sport...mbo-brake-16-x-16-cnc-long-folding-lever.html ) Mastercylinder will give less of a performance gain than you might think and goes further down the slope away from an affordable grass-roots fun race class in my opinion. And that's not even factoring in calipers if you open up the brakes completely to modifications.
    But if it passes, hey, call me for wicked Brembo deals!!

    Dean,
    Since I'm the head of the 2014 rules committee I hope this addresses your concerns that no one on the rules committee has been following this. The rules committee slot on the program not being filled in was a mistake, here is the list of who was on the 2014 rules committee for everyone:

    Bez Cajee #11
    Dean Drolet #42
    Alex Dumitru #414
    Jordon Aylen #15
    Kelly Bell # 408
    Marbod Kern #8
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2014
  9. *Jay*

    *Jay* Member WMRC Exec

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    I think that maybe my comments earlier may not have been clear. I am saying DON'T CHANGE THE 250 SUPERSPORT CLASS. Due to effort and action by a number of people, including the current WMRC president, bcmotorides, Burnaby Kawasaki, Big Top Powersports and the Honda Center, this class has shown the largest number of bikes on the grid at a WMRC event. However, moving forward, more manufacturers are producing small displacement bikes that are stretching the cc range. So a class that allows the Ninja 300, CBR 300, Yamaha R3, KTM RC390, 2011-2012 ex400 twin, and any other bike like these is a good idea in my opinion

    So I am also saying CREATE A NEW CLASS FOR 300/320/390 and run it in addition to the 250 class, and ALLOW 250'S TO ENTER THIS NEW CLASS. If there is not enough room in the schedule then fine run these two classes together, I just think that it would provide better value to the club and the 250 riders to run a second race for the new class. Filling the grid with 250's until enough 300's are taking all the podium spots will produce a better show for any spectators, and will push the riders of those 250's to improve their laptimes. The club reaps the benefit of more entry fees. The riders reap the benefit of more track time in the way a SV650 or 600 supersport rider does currently.

    No one is saying we need to turn these 250's into hand grenades and spend big$$ just to compete at the local grass roots race club. My 250 was competitive and as far as power mods go it had a K&N air filter, jet kit, air box snorkle removed, Area P full exhaust, sprockets (1 down front and 1 up rear) synthetic oil and pump gas. I believe that anyone wanting to get into racing with a small budget can build exactly what I ran this year, and be competitive in the 250 supersport class. Certainly less expensive than a 600.
     
  10. Dean Thompson

    Dean Thompson New Member

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    Thanks for the Intel, Marbod. I don't think I exaggerated much, I said 700cc SV's putting out close to 100hp (92hp isn't too far off). A dude coming out with a stock 65hp SV has little hope of running at the front, as I can attest to. I could holeshot occasionally and hold the lead for one lap until the straightaway, where the three built SV's would motor me every time. It's recorded on GoPro if you need proof. Not getting into a pissing contest over a class that is already ruined. At least we agree that a mild bump in horsepower should be allowed in 250 class. Jay, I'm not saying allow big bore kits and the like, just a timing advance, maybe a little compression bump, but would still need to run pump gas, etc. Inexpensive mods in the big picture. Either that or the big boys like me will be spending a shit tonne of cash on a new Yamaha. Easy choice.
     
  11. Marbod

    Marbod Rubbin's racin'

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    Steve Crevier came out one time on his wife's street SV650 (bone stock other than a rear shock) and he still beat me. Just goes to show that A: stock SVs CAN be competitive when ridden well and B: I'm slow.
    Also, there have only been 2 SVs at Mission in the last 3 season's at Mission that were THAT built. The other ones were in a much milder state of tune.

    P.S. Now Oliver Jervis' s SV from a few years ago that he ran in WMRRA( I think he even got the overall #1 plate one year with it I believe), THAT bike was something else. 112hp at the wheel was the hp number that Dan Zlock(who built the bike for Oli) finally admitted to to me a couple years later. It cost him over $20k to built and run over that season so no surprise why that was a one-off....
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2014
  12. Dean Thompson

    Dean Thompson New Member

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    My comparison is more towards racers with a similar skillset. Marquez could beat Crevier if they both ran stock SV's. :scooter:
     
  13. Marbod

    Marbod Rubbin's racin'

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    In that case, I put my $ on my newly sponsored rider Dani https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gF1LL1sx7A beating Thompson.

    He also seems to exhibit the same behavior that Dean sometimes displays on the forums at the 1:10 mark and then finishing with " a Thompson " at 1:53. The similarities are uncanny.
     
  14. Dean Thompson

    Dean Thompson New Member

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    I see what you did there smarty pants.
    a.jpg
     
  15. Marbod

    Marbod Rubbin's racin'

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  16. Dean Thompson

    Dean Thompson New Member

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    Wikipedia? Your Google skills are weak. But back to my post: 10,000 friendly fire deaths in one attack! Well done. That should be in Guinness Book of Records.
     
  17. Ryan Whittle

    Ryan Whittle Rider of Orange V-Twins

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    Not sure why we are bringing up SV superbikes. Built SVs have been around for 15+ years. It costs as much to buy a built sv such as mine as it costs to buy a stock fuel injected sv with nothing more than a shock and some bodywork.

    With that being said, I think it makes to do as Jay says, keep 250s as is and create a lightweight superbike class for Superstock spec 300s, R3s, and KTMs. That gives the 250s a step up class.
     
  18. Brett

    Brett Twin Brothers Racing WMRC Exec

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    [​IMG]
    I believe I own the SV Steve was on here, but it now has some engine and suspension work. Marbod would still kick my ass.
     

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    Last edited: Nov 2, 2014
  19. Dean Thompson

    Dean Thompson New Member

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    Someone else made a statement that the small bike class could spin out of control like Middleweight Twins did. I raced SV Cup back in 2003 and it was awesome. As soon as Suzuki stopped sponsoring the series a can of worms opened up and nobody put the lid back on it. If someone was smart enough to limit the horsepower in the first place to say, 70hp or something, it would have stayed an awesome cheap class. Anyway, that's a dead horse. My point with the 250 Production is, if the rules are altered slightly to allow for 300cc bikes and we still have a HP cap, just slightly higher than the 32hp (?) we have now. Maybe 36hp or whatever the 300cc puts out. It's not rocket science, I'm not sure what the issue is here. Having a +50cc "step up" class is pointless, if someone is ready to move up to a bigger bike class I doubt they'd go from a 250cc to a 300cc. Not to mention how many years it'll take for there to be enough 300cc bikes on the grid to have a class of their own. Consider this a preemptive rule modification.
     
  20. Marbod

    Marbod Rubbin's racin'

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    The worst part is that Steve is giving me the finger for most of the front straight there.....
    P.S. Note the "trick" turkey baster belly pan.
     

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