250 Production 2015

Discussion in 'Rule Book Proposals' started by Dean Thompson, Sep 29, 2014.

  1. Dean Thompson

    Dean Thompson New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    0
    Moved my post here since it's lying dead in the ditch in the Mission Racing section:
    300 Production? I think the 300's should be allowed to race 250 Production beginning 2015. Maybe the existing 250cc horsepower limit (32hp?) should be bumped up to whatever a healthy 300cc bike puts out, this will allow the racers sticking with the 250cc to do mild modifications to stay competitive against the 300cc bikes. And make David Vu run a full tank of fuel and wear a backpack with a few bricks in it. ;)
     
  2. paulmc

    paulmc New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    The wmrra rules allow 300's in the 250 class but they must run stock fuel and exhaust systems.
    If the Hp limit for 250's goes up to match a modified 300, it would be nice to have the option to upgrade the 250 brake system as well. Regardless I'm looking forward to next season.
     
  3. Andrew Marles

    Andrew Marles Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2010
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    18
    The noises that I've heard is that it will be similar to the WMRRA rules. Stock 300s and modified 250s. It's the amount of modification that's going to be allowed to a 250 that is under discussion.
     
  4. Jaybo

    Jaybo if you want blood

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2005
    Messages:
    378
    Likes Received:
    3
    weight limits too. Dave & Jay will have to add 75 lbs of ballast.:p
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2014
  5. Wblairlayton

    Wblairlayton Faster and Faster

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2006
    Messages:
    346
    Likes Received:
    0
    Allowing upgraded brakes on any of the bikes, 250 or 300cc is not really asking for much at all. This is not uncommon on the US tracks at all.

    Allowing for Quick Shifters in all classes is also long overdue. As is Mandatory Brake Guards which would only bring to where the AMA and every club east of us in Canada has been for several years now.

    Allowing for the 250 classes to match the Claimed HP of the Stock Kawasaki 300 is not asking for anything much either,

    Enjoy the ride, and best regards,
    Blair
     
  6. Dean

    Dean Just a beer league racer

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    2,779
    Likes Received:
    1
    I totally agree on the quick shifters as a racer that doesn't use one! I see more bikes with bad shifters get the shaft during a race because they malfunction all the time! I wish all my competitors had one! Ask Jordon how well his worked, and then ask Spero and Bez about almost ass-packing him when his quick shifter failed and just cut spark instead.

    I do however disagree on the brake guards. We've not had a tangled brake incident yet, and there have been reports of brake guards causing more hand damage in a crash than without. I don't feel that this "safety feature" is required to compete at all. I think that it should still be left to personal preference. It's an extra $150 that a racer doesn't need to spend. I was surprised that the EMRA made it mandatory. WMRC, PCMRC, WMRRA, OMMRA and I believe that even WERA does not require them.
     
  7. Wblairlayton

    Wblairlayton Faster and Faster

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2006
    Messages:
    346
    Likes Received:
    0

    :) Brake Guards are required at all AMA sanctioned events, as of several years ago,

    Well set up Quick Shifters work very well.


    Enjoy the ride, and best regards,
    Blair
     
  8. Dean Thompson

    Dean Thompson New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    0
    I had a turn 1 incident with Jay a few seasons back. He took my brake lever mount off when we contacted during a hairball pass (by Jay :eeek:). I built an aluminum brake lever guard before the next race. They may seem like a waste of time/money, until your brake lever touches a rider/bike during a race. :2cents:
     
  9. Wblairlayton

    Wblairlayton Faster and Faster

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2006
    Messages:
    346
    Likes Received:
    0
    :) Well said Dean. I have also seen Valentino Rossi quoted as saying that the Brake Guard saved him from being crashed out as well,

    Enjoy the ride, and best regards,
    Blair
     
  10. HWY99

    HWY99 Team Green

    Joined:
    May 5, 2011
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have hand guards on both sides for additional slider protection. They seem to take the initial brunt of a fall protecting more expensive parts and fingers. I can see how hand guards could lock bikes together so maybe brake side only is best?

    I had a quick shifter from a well known manufacturer that intermittently cut the fuel. This wasn't fun hard on the gas coming out of a corner so turned it off. The manufacturer sent me a free updated replacement that seems to work very well. There's probably a lot of faulty/failing quick shifters out there. I really like quick shifters when working properly but they are another potential problem like all electronic add-ons.
     
  11. Wblairlayton

    Wblairlayton Faster and Faster

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2006
    Messages:
    346
    Likes Received:
    0

    :) When we opened up Quick Shifters at the EMRA in Edmonton it did not create any issues with riders or a single incident on the track due to failures. What it did do was allow anyone who felt like running one to do so. It simply allowed choice to be individual. No one felt that they were either advantaged or disadvantaged. Likewise I have never see a thread on their Forum or heard anyone comment that they felt using a Quick Shifter was unfair at all.

    Enjoy the ride, and best regards,
    Blair
     
  12. *Jay*

    *Jay* Member WMRC Exec

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2010
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    6
    I have been to a few of the general WMRC meetings this year, and believe that a 300 production class has been discussed. This creates more track time (value) for riders of 250's since those would be eligible, and opens the door to anyone wanting to build a 300 racebike.

    I am not opposed to quick shifters, and probably would not run one. To each their own.

    I also feel that brake guards should be installed by anyone that wants to run one, but don't think they should be mandatory. I managed to chip one of my knee sliders on Deans brake lever (when he left the door wide open :p) and I would have appreciated the guard.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2014
  13. Jaybo

    Jaybo if you want blood

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2005
    Messages:
    378
    Likes Received:
    3
    my elbow is my brake guard :) The idea of a spec class is to keep costs down and keep the playing field level. For that reason I'd say nay to the brakes and the quickshifters. I'm split on the brake guard idea, as a safety item it's worth considering however I for one don't like the idea of the added expense.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2014
  14. Dean Thompson

    Dean Thompson New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    0
    You obviously never seen mine on the 250. It was 1/8" thick aluminum bent with a couple radius' and a hole drilled through it into the bar end with a self tapping metal screw holding it on. No complaints about cost from me. :eek:
     
  15. Jaybo

    Jaybo if you want blood

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2005
    Messages:
    378
    Likes Received:
    3
    Sounds like I'd remember seeing it :laughing
     
  16. HWY99

    HWY99 Team Green

    Joined:
    May 5, 2011
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    0
    I checked other race association results and there seems to be very few 300's being raced. They were not front runners in the full grid 250 classes. I found this surprising because all reviews indicate the 300 is supposedly much superior. I have heard a modified 250 and stock 300 are similar with equal riders?

    It makes sense to have a 300 class if it attracts more members and club sponsorship from the manufacturers. I'm sure the manufacturers want to showcase their latest machinery but chances are only the best sponsored riders will have 300's who will blow the rest of the 250 field away.

    Maybe best to have a 300 class with supersport rules open to faster 250 riders with highly modified bikes. Also have a downgraded 250 spec class (Ninja - stock muffler) to make racing more cost effective and accessible to new racers. Allow all mods for CBR250's so they can be competitive with the lower spec Ninja 250's. Less cost and close competition make for fun racing (lots of smiles from the new MotoTT class). Both classes could run at the same time to maximize track time for all.
     
  17. Dean Thompson

    Dean Thompson New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm not sure what the process is or the timeline required for rule changes, but there is potentially allot of work required by the 250cc racers if the horsepower limits are increased to allow 300cc (or 320cc Yamaha's) into the small bike class. If an engine is to be reworked we need some lead time to order parts and do the work. So the sooner this rule change is made the better. Also, can we have a dyno show up for some races to limit cheater bikes?
     
  18. *Jay*

    *Jay* Member WMRC Exec

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2010
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    6
    Just run a 250, and enjoy the 250 supersport class because it is awesome. Let the club create another "300" class as long as 250's are eligable, more track time and more rewarding when you beat someone on the bigger bike.

    Bigger grids with close racing is better for the competitors, more entertaining for spectators, and the best way to present an opportunity to sponsors.

    I don't think we will see so many cheater bikes that we have to worry about limiting their numbers. I think you lose your "man card" if you try and build a cheater bike at this level. (Unless you ride a Honda, because those poor things just don't seem to have the juice at Mission and need all the help they can get - they do well at go kart tracks though) However I do like the idea of modding bikes to look for an advantage, so if the "300" class is going to be governed by an HP limit I would probably want to build up a carbbed 250 with a big bore some day.
     
  19. Dean Thompson

    Dean Thompson New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sounds good in writing but it'll be a very slow trickle of 300cc bikes showing up at races. The time it'll take before there's enough to have their own class could be years, which means they'll run in 250 class until that time. I believe the easiest fix is to call the class something else (300 super sport?) and leave the rules alone except for bumping the horsepower limit a little to match a healthy 300cc bike.
    Very similar to what Steve (Hwy99) said above, minus the "highly modified 250's" part.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2014
  20. HWY99

    HWY99 Team Green

    Joined:
    May 5, 2011
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not sure how happy 250 riders will be having to mod their bikes to be competitive with a few 300's or 320's. Also, where does that leave the CBR 250 riders? Maybe next year the manufacturers will replace 300's with 350's - then what? With a good supply of inexpensive used 250's available why mess with a very popular entry level class?

    I thought the intent of the 250 class was to encourage new racers and for those of us who enjoy fun cost effective racing. Does the 250 Gold Cup become the 300 Gold Cup and are 300 class bikes too big for kart tracks? The 250 class is a great "next step" for mini bike racers unless you are Jeff Pinkster who can ride the wheels off a 600 first time out!

    Would be good to hear how other 250 riders feel about allowing bigger bikes in their class.
     

Share This Page