2016 rule book proposal -BOT/MW twins

Discussion in 'Rule Book Proposals' started by Jaybo, Jan 13, 2016.

  1. Ryan Whittle

    Ryan Whittle Rider of Orange V-Twins

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    I don't understand your logic there Andre. MWSBK includes all the guys from MW Twins PLUS the Ducati 748 and 99-02 R6.

    So you're telling me you feel safer in a class that includes more faster bikes than a class that doesn't include them? Makes no sense to me.

    Only other classes we are eligible for is MWSBK (which your statement above indicates you don't want us in), the F118/F115 sportsman classes and 600SS, where, unless you are on a 748 running low 1:13's, you are far from competitive in.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016
  2. *Jay*

    *Jay* Member WMRC Exec

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    I would say that the best idea so far is to run a Supersport mw bott inside the bott race.
     
  3. Ryan Whittle

    Ryan Whittle Rider of Orange V-Twins

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    If there are 3 supersport legal twins, why not?
     
  4. Andrew Marles

    Andrew Marles Moderator

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    I think the best thing would be to run a MW supersport race alongside MotoTT. That will invite the riders on supersport SVs to be part of a grid that they normally wouldn't enter. By being creative we could accomplish all of the goals stated in the original rule change without taking anything away from anyone. I don't think I agree with splitting the existing grid, then you will have a championship of 2 bikes.

    MotoTT is actually slower at the sharp end than MWSBK so I think the safety is manageable.
     
  5. Jaybo

    Jaybo if you want blood

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    great idea, and we make another race. works for me. We retain a popular race and create a new one. win/win
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016
  6. nickdudziak

    nickdudziak New Member

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    What do you mean by sharp end? Sorry I'm an immigrant
     
  7. Jaybo

    Jaybo if you want blood

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    he means the front

     
  8. nickdudziak

    nickdudziak New Member

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    I guess with Nicola in the lead yes but isn't tt designed for racers under 1:18? If we run with ppl 1:20 and up by lap 8 or 9 Nicola will catch up and some faster guys in tt as well. My 2 pennies
     
  9. nickdudziak

    nickdudziak New Member

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    Saying that I'm good with whatever. The more the better. I just wanna have fun and race
     
  10. KBELL408

    KBELL408 New Member

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    Wow . Whole lot of "weird" going on in here ....

    So BOTT has always been a catch all class for the WMRC. The race time allocated to BOTT has often had sub classes running under varied rules. Open Singles , Heavyweight , Middleweight ,Lightweight , 2-Strokes, 4-Strokes and even some triples at times. All running as BOTT . Some ran as stand alone sub classes with waved starts. Some were scored as sub classes in "combined" BOTT races. EXAMPLE . SV CUP Supersport events were often run within Middleweight Formula BOTT races. Meaning you could be 3rd in BOTT and 1st in SV CUP . TWO trophies ! One race ! Big grids .

    This would be my suggestion for the SS TWINS Class requested . At a time when turn out is horribly low do we really want to exclude bikes and riders ? When the Super Sport 650 horde shows up run them waved, combined or as Andrew suggests add SS Middleweights twins in with a non comparable class (Moto-whatever ) .Lets think about having MORE ! More classes to race in is always better .More races with more bikes is the best.

    BOTT has always been a Formula Rules class .I am not hearing real valid reasons for excluding Formula built bikes. "Because I want to win a race" is not a valid reason to exclude long standing machines from a long standing class . It is however a VERY VALID reason to add a race /sub class with Supersport rules. It is not a reason to decimate an existing class though. Again , times and needs change . Again,let us add a SS Middleweight class . Hopefully it does attract some new riders .Hopefully they enter Middleweight Twins BOTT as well .

    As for all the talk about SuperSport rules being cheaper ? Haha ya right. Buy a fuel injected SV650 , Have Lanagan or Pinkstaff Blueprint the motor , Cartridge kit in the forks , Power Commander w/ exhaust and have it Dyno tuned . I won't mention race fuel . And for the people that say "you don't have to do all that" ? Well no ,no you don't but you can and some will . And isn't that the complaint about the Formula rules? Then we could discuss all the cheating that goes hand in hand with SS rules . Bored out throttle bodies ? Anyone ? Check out the speed (power) of the top SS twins at Portland .

    And Me ? Well we're throwing a used set of Gen2 cams ($150.00) into my Formula / Superbike 1999 SV which already has JE 2mm piston kit (got good used pistons for free, bought new rings) and Flatsides (traded my stock carbs to a SV CUP racer in the old days) Hoping for 80-82hp. Still running stock forks with emulators and springs , stock wheels and rotors, four piston calipers with adapters and ...yup that's about it . Good performance/power and cheaper than a full on Supersport Gen2 build. Going to be fun . Great schedule of events this year . Hoping Superbike isn't my bump class but oh well . See you all at the track .
     
  11. Andrew Marles

    Andrew Marles Moderator

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    Hey Nick. MotoTT is definitely not just for riders under 1:18. That would be Formula Ultra, the fastest grid in the club, which reserves the right to black flag riders that are lapping over 1:18.

    If you are averaging 1:15, and someone else is averaging 1:21, that is 7 seconds per lap. In a 10 lap race, that is 70 seconds, which is 1:10, which means the slower rider will not be lapped. Likely the numbers won't always work out so well (there will always be backmarkers like me) but you would not be swerving through a pack of lap traffic.

    All of those riders would also be running in MWSBK, with the front runners doing the same or faster lap times than MotoTT, so I argue that putting the 650 supersport twins on the grid behind MotoTT does not present any additional safety issues, and helps to fill out our sparse grids.

    Hope to see you out there Kelly.
     
  12. nickdudziak

    nickdudziak New Member

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    Yeah I thought it was 1:18 but you're right. Lots of middle weight run more than 1:21. But like I said I'm down for whatever and you're not a back marker. I think you referring to me in rain lol
     
  13. nickdudziak

    nickdudziak New Member

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    6 seconds lol
     
  14. Andrew Marles

    Andrew Marles Moderator

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    I can't add, but I think we are on the same page.
     
  15. Ryan Whittle

    Ryan Whittle Rider of Orange V-Twins

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  16. Ryan Whittle

    Ryan Whittle Rider of Orange V-Twins

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    It's amazing how little extra you get out of all the extra motor work that takes it from supersport to superbike.

    I'm assuming that the motor on Andrew's bike is the same as it was with Dean, but I didn't catch Andrew all that quick down the front straight. Eddie on the other hand looked like he was tied to a fence post when he first came out.
     
  17. GaryM.

    GaryM. Live and uncensored

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    Finally a thread of actual discussion and idea bantering! Again, just let the kids play with what they got. Less restrictions = more riders. It is just for fun anyways, no one is making a career out of this..... even Spero:wave:
     
  18. *Jay*

    *Jay* Member WMRC Exec

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    The only items I have taken away from this thread is that the class would be better served to be left alone. Also, that given equal riders, you should be able to participate and expect to be competetive in at least one class.
     
  19. Jaybo

    Jaybo if you want blood

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    i'd have to agree. We've even heard online from a new racer, who took our course last year that he built a bike for this class and would be disappointed to have invested in the build only to have the class changed. -That has to have some merit! we want and need new racers to join us! Of course It's good to look at the rule book and evolution is necessary, but 180 degree changes in rules don't reflect stability which is always important. Regardless, I think we've come to an ideal solution with the addition of a bott supersport race. I think it would be best to proceed with a discussion on what that race should look like.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2016
  20. Ryan Whittle

    Ryan Whittle Rider of Orange V-Twins

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    I've heard a few people say "take it back to the way it was".

    As Kelly mentioned, this class has always been formula rules.

    SVCup was an initiative of Suzuki Canada. WMRC had nothing to do with the rules of that class.

    The only evolution that has occurred in this class was to split heavyweight twins from middleweight twins (all on formula rules). I'll gladly eat my words if someone has an old rulebook that shows that this class used to be supersport rules.

    I clearly remember Rob on a stock black SV650 beating Rob New on his TLR1000 in the championship one year.
     

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