2016 rule book proposal -BOT/MW twins

Discussion in 'Rule Book Proposals' started by Jaybo, Jan 13, 2016.

  1. Jaybo

    Jaybo if you want blood

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    This rule proposal was proprosed via email and given permission to post on the forum for the members discussion:



    Rulebook change - Chapter 7, battle of the twins / middleweight twins class structure

    section 7.8 be amended as follows:

    I. Up to 650cc four stroke liquid cooled twins
    II. Up to 1000cc four stroke air cooled, two valve twins
    III. All Supersport rules apply.


    Proposed rule change for Battle of the Twins/Middleweight twins class.
    As we have more bikes that are closer to Supersport SV650's then ones with modified superbike builds the racers with 650cc Supersport build bikes should have good class that would allow all of them to have an equal chance to podium finishes. Big bore bike, superbike build bikes should be in Middleweight Superbike and perhaps F118 and F115 classes.
     
  2. Andrew Marles

    Andrew Marles Moderator

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    Are we also excluding Singles from this class? We have had interest from people wanting to race KTMs and 450s in the club, these rule changes would also exclude them and give them fewer classes to race. We are also trying to get some of the 450 supermotos out, and this is one of the best classes for them.

    The rules for this class have been stable for 5 years, and now you're going to tell 3/4 of the racers that their bikes are not allowed to run? That seems counter-productive to me.
     
  3. Ryan Whittle

    Ryan Whittle Rider of Orange V-Twins

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    This would kick out any SV650 rider with a GSXR front end.

    For further clarity, I am very much against this amendment. IMO, there are more SVs that have superbike modifications than there are those who don't.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
  4. cookie

    cookie Two Smokin'

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    Here is the rule as written last year:

    7.8 Battle of the Twins
    • Trophy Class
    • Open to all licensed riders.
    • Gridding done by season’s points.
    • Middleweight Twins
     700cc watercooled multi valve twins
     1000cc air-cooled, two valve twins
     Open displacement air cooled pushrod twins
     Open single
    • Formula rules (see chapter 10)
    • Maximum 88db.

    Is the proposal only to change from Formula to Supersport rules and the displacement break?

    Any thought that this may encourage stock(ish) SVs out of the garage? The superbike build SVs have Middleweight SB as their primary class already...
     
  5. Ryan Whittle

    Ryan Whittle Rider of Orange V-Twins

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    If anything, I think this would keep some of the superbike SVs that are around from coming out.

    Specific riders bikes I can think of are Dean Drolet, Rob/Rick's SV that Simon rode (has a 2mm motor), Chad Gibson's old bike, Gary Mansi's SV (pretty sure it's SBK), Brett Hanson would be kicked out, I'd be kicked out and IIRC Marc Perrot.

    that's 5 current riders and 2 other possible bikes getting kicked out.

    To speak for myself, I'm not particularly excited about having my primary class being MWSBK where I go against a 748 running low 1:13s, a F118 class that I break out of and a F115 class I get my ass kicked in going against 600s.

    Just my opinion, do with it what you will.
     
  6. Eddie 59

    Eddie 59 New Member

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    my motor is stock.
     
  7. Ryan Whittle

    Ryan Whittle Rider of Orange V-Twins

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    That's what I thought. A pretty common mod on the first gen SV was to do a cam swap, not sure if that is non-supersport legal in our rulebook, but I believe that's not supersport at OMRRA, WMRRA or WERA.
     
  8. GaryM.

    GaryM. Live and uncensored

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    This kind of ideology (good word) is why I stopped racing in 2011 with my ZX-7 because my primary class that I raced in was changed to 600cc maximum and I was told to race superbike and 1:18. Basically told no racing for you! This is not a huge club, for the love of good let a fun class be fun and run what you brung (within reason of course). We just want to have fun and lets be honest, all SV racers out there (Superbike build or stock) run about the same times. Let the kids play.
     
  9. Georgie G

    Georgie G Animal Viking

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    Though I might chime in on my thoughts and some possible ideas. First off I know the club is small and a lot of people racing the SV650 have some sort of modifications so this can be a slippery slope. I currently run a stockish SV that when last dynode put out 70hp, that being said, it's hard for me to race my hardest and be ahead by 20 bike lengths when hopped up SV's catch right up to me again on the straight just in time for turn 1. I'm still saying I'm having fun but it can be disheartening when you're ahead throughout the whole race only to get sandbagged to the checkered flag. Perhaps we can come to a compromise where we follow supersport rules but allow for some changes, for example front suspensions and carburetor changes. Supersport rules currently allow for 1mm overbores with OEM pistons, so maybe this wouldn't exclude as many people as we think. Another option would be expand section 8.3 to include HP limitations to middle weight twins.

    8.3 Maximum HP rules apply 185 RWHP for open Supersport and 125 RWHP for 600 Supersport, as measured on the official WMRC Dyno.

    My 2 cents

    George
     
  10. Ryan Whittle

    Ryan Whittle Rider of Orange V-Twins

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    How about this. Why not propose a new class called middleweight supersport twins. Leave MWT as is but combine the grid with MWSST. I guarantee there will be less than 3 bikes that register for MWSST because realistically, only Eddie and George have a supersport legal bike.
     
  11. Dean Thompson

    Dean Thompson New Member

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    Being supersport legal and having a fully built superbike is a big difference in the SV world. My old SV (Andrew has now) was legal. I purposly built it to be WMRRA super sport legal. Not sure if Andrew has modified it since I had it. I've stirred up shit with this same discussion years back. HP limits would have saved the class if they were put in place after the demise of the SV Cup, but now it's too late. I agree, nothing feels as depressing as getting smoked on the straight by another SV that has a 25+ HP advantage.
     
  12. Eddie 59

    Eddie 59 New Member

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    I don't think we should change anything. I have a first gen SV that has a pipe, jet kit and modified air box. That's it. I'm competitive until my fat ass gets tires and run out of poop on the last few laps and people get by me. (Or when someone stalks you for the entire race then shows you a wheel on the last lap when I though I had a 3 second lead Ryan). I don't think the superbike built bikes are any faster then the rest. We all screw up one corner or another on a lap then the guy behind catches back up with you. I say leave it and lets have some fun. I don't care if Im first or tenth, as long as there is someone to dice with Im a happy camper.
     
  13. GaryM.

    GaryM. Live and uncensored

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    Everyone does 1:18 to 1:21, built up or no. A motor means nothing if you do not have the endurance to do 10 consistent laps. If you get passed on the straight stuff em back in a corner and get a gap.....I think that's called racing is it not?
     
  14. Georgie G

    Georgie G Animal Viking

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    Yes Gary this is racing and it would be great to see you come out this year. Although your zx7 can only run in a few classes it would still be nice to see you out there even though you would be at a great disadvantage compared to liter bikes or as Ryan Whittle suggested you can come out on your superbike and take the cake. Either way would be really nice to see more people out racing rather than posting.
     
  15. GaryM.

    GaryM. Live and uncensored

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    You obviously do not know who I am. ZX7 was 2008-2011 currently I race with you on an SV. Do you drink allot???
     
  16. Ryan Whittle

    Ryan Whittle Rider of Orange V-Twins

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    Georgie, I think Gary was out for a few rounds on his SV last year. I think Eddie may have tried to wrench on it so it was no bueno.

    The reality is if you look at SVs for sale, there are generally more superbikes for sale than there are supersports.

    Full disclosure, my motor is pretty friggin built. It's a +3mm motor with cams, flatslides, rods and some headwork. It makes between 90-95HP.

    Andrew Marles on Dean's old bike is not that much slower than my bike in the straights. Realistically, my bike runs on a big 190 rear tire with tons of grip and I get a really good drive off the corner. Even when I had my SV cup legal bike, I could get off the corner really well. I actually turned faster laps on that SV than I do on the superbike.
     
  17. Ryan Whittle

    Ryan Whittle Rider of Orange V-Twins

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  18. Jaybo

    Jaybo if you want blood

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    Hi . yes.
    I think Eddie may have tried to wrench on it so it was no bueno.

    funnay
     
  19. Georgie G

    Georgie G Animal Viking

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    Sorry Gary, couldn't put the name to the face until you asked me if I drink alot.... I feel like a Malaka :) When I first posted I did say this would be a slippery slope. Honestly, I didn't bring this topic up but thought I would add some thoughts and suggestions once it was brought up. I'm glad a few people have chimed in on the topic so we can all hear their thoughts and possible suggestions. I'm thinking on similar lines as Eddie where I just love to race and was glad we had a large grid last year.

    For the record, stock bore, head gasket, old gen exhaust cams, stock airbox, pipe-whatever I could find, and aerodynamic duct tape (Just kidding)===70 RWHP!!
     
  20. Andrew Marles

    Andrew Marles Moderator

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    I am still running the 160 rear and I get off the corners as hard as any SV. I lose time in 4 and on the brakes into 1 and 3. Eddie beat everyone on his stock 1st gen. This is a fun class and some days was one of the biggest on the grid. Why would you make such a big change to a class that is successful? Last year the rules were modified to ensure that the new FZ07 would be eligible as well since we might start to see those bikes show up.

    If you want to propose a production 700 twins class with middleweight twins as a bump class that might make more sense and would keep people from building the new yamahas into superbikes. We could probably grid it behind MotoTT until enough bikes show up. Make it so that novices cannot enter so that they're not on track with the faster MotoTT riders. This way you are basically creating a class from nothing and incentivizing riders to limit modifications to their bikes, instead of disappointing them. With MotoTT at 1:15 and 650 production at a 1:21 average lap time, there won't be much if any lap traffic.
     

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