2013 Rule Book Discussion

Discussion in 'Racing at Mission' started by Dean, Dec 7, 2012.

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  1. Jerry

    Jerry New Member

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    Yeah, I wondered about this as well. While I understand what is trying to be accomplished here, the devil is in the details.

    Re: The cut-off times. Let's say you register at 0700 for your day's events, go out for practice at 0900, get held up by traffic, don't get a clean lap and fail to make the cutoff. What do you do then, go back to registration and remove yourself from that event? Or will we then use last round's best time? Or if it is the first round of the season - do we use last year's best time. And who gets to decide, anyway, ... and using what criteria?

    Re: The black flagging issue. While I understand the safety concerns, I must ask again, who gets to decide who is black flagged, ... and using what criteria? Seems to me getting held up by back markers is part of racing - for Stoner and Vettel as well.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  2. tt600

    tt600 New Member

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    ryan,my motives/intensions have been in the right place and i apoligize if i have offened you.....your one person i would want on the list of the rules committee......in the past you have looked at the best interest of the club.
     
  3. stykman

    stykman I can't recall

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    I may have some stuff confused here as I only scanned the thread and the rule book but here are my thoughts, for what they are worth:
    - Drop any time requirements in expert or match the clubs down south (120%). Except in very rare instances if you are that much faster than someone getting by should not be a problem and it is not like the track is clogged with riders.
    - Lose the black flag for people getting lapped, maybe try to incorporate a blue flag when possible. See above or below for reason.
    - I agree that we should not be telling anyone that they cannot race unless they are a complete hazard, and speed differential at our small club is not a hazard, it is just part of the game. If the few riders who are lapping people cannot handle it safely than really they are the hazard and not the other way around. Besides, Jorge Lorenzo has said that he would like to come and race with us as he needs a little more practice in dealing with lappers now that MotoGP has CRT.
    - Having two tiers sounds ok (I haven't figured out the difference between a novice and a graduated novice yet). With so few riders it looks kind of silly holding races with 3 or 4 riders in them. Make bigger grids, everyone is going to be racing with the same people anyways. If the manufacturers and suppliers were offering contingency money still I could see the issue of not having amateur and expert but contingency is not a reality anymore. This will also make things much easier on the volunteers running the day.
    - The sound is the sound, pretty simple, keep it below 88db no matter what you are riding.
    - No one is jumping from novice(or intermediate) to pro, they are going from novice to expert, the same as many other tracks have done it for many years. Pro's race at nationals in Canada and the U.S.. And that is not to say that there is not the odd pro level rider racing at Mission, but calling the whole classification 'Pro', is a bit of a stretch.
    - I am not sure about the vests for novice riders or graduated novices. I would probably just get target fixation and run into them. ;)
    - Yes, a few riders will not get trophies in intermediate who would have, but I think that most of us would rather have the club spend that money on more airfence than on trophies. As a matter of fact just get rid of trophies for everyone and hand out certificates at the end of the year. I think we could easily add another 25 sections of airfence.

    If the time requirements were altered or dropped and the black flag for lappers was dropped how many would still abandon the club and why?
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  4. Jerry

    Jerry New Member

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    VERY well said, my son :bow:
     
  5. ctardi

    ctardi New Member

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    If someone from the club has a few moments, could they please address my concern from early in the thread about a short season this year meaning that novices would have to re-take the race school? (Hopefully I've worded it more clearly this time below.)

    I suggested that instead of having to re-take the race school if you don't graduate in 2 years to only having to re-take it if you are inactive for a year. I think this would be much more fair to those of us that are budgetally and schedually challenged. I do not see the current rule as a good way to retain new members.

    Thanks!
     
  6. gxr jo

    gxr jo New Member

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    can you show us a typical raceday schedule so we can see whom races with whom

    is there a seperate ladies race class
     
  7. urquhart

    urquhart New Member

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    I'm excited to race with all of you again this season. Just sayin.
     
  8. Dean

    Dean Just a beer league racer

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    Dave, if I could post a "Like' I would. I just want to race with you all again. Those are good times.
     
  9. Jaybo

    Jaybo if you want blood

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    Yes +2. That was my feelings all along. If this stuff gets fixed i'm very happy. I just want to race with my friends. Actually i want to kick their asses... race style that is
     
  10. Jerry

    Jerry New Member

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    New rules

    If we implement the new rules AS CURRENTLY WRITTEN, here's how I see it actually working:

    07:00 to 09:00 - Registration - have big poop fight with Race Committee members (who may or may not be easily located) about who gets to register for which event, based on lap times turned at some earlier (but currently undefined) date.

    09:00 to 12:00 - Practice - have even bigger poop fight with aforementioned Race Committee members about who gets to race in which afternoon event based on lap times turned in morning practice, which may be better or worse than the ones used to register. (see above)

    13:00 to 17:00 - Race - then have REALLY, REALLY BIG post race poop fight with everybody based on black flag results.

    For example: Billy Bob (who didn't get black flagged but shoulda), stood up Leroy (who did get black flagged but not soon enough), which caused my best friend Cletis (who got black flagged but didn't deserve it), to run wide which then caused him to block me (but it wasn't his fault), which then pushed me back into 3rd, when I actually shoulda been at least 2nd, er maybe even 1st. WAAAAH! WAAAH! WAAH! (Hey - we're racers - we're good at whining :)) Repeat for rest of grid.

    In my view, this formula is completely unworkable and has the capability to cause real dissention within the club.

    While I do not agree with the concepts of lap time cut offs and black flagging in club racing, I do understand what is trying to be accomplished. However, if we decide to go down that road, the rules must be VERY tightly written and they must be enforced with ABSOLUTE consistency.

    Example #1 - lap time cut offs. The rule book must clearly state: (1) When and how your initial benchmark lap time is established. (2) When and how this benchmark may be upgraded (i.e. do Hail Mary laps count?) (3) To which class(es) it applies. (4) Who in the Race Committee is empowered to make the call. (5) That all this stuff must be in place BEFORE registration, etc.

    Example #2 - black flagging procedures. I ain't gonna touch this with a 10 foot pole!

    Example #3 - upgrading to "Graduated Novice". Nope, ain't touchin' this one either!
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  11. cookie

    cookie Two Smokin'

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    Just curious as to what is going to happen with all this. Personally I think there should be some transparency regarding the process to avoid a shit-show at Monday's meeting. Just my $.02
     
  12. Dean Thompson

    Dean Thompson New Member

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    From my point of view, this is what looks like is happening: club members really wanted to see a fresh executive as the old one was getting stagnant and was a bit of a clique. Scott Borthwick throws his name into the hat and runs as President, winning easily. Excitement ensues as we have a fresh view coming in that will see the issues and address them as required. Unfortunately, Mr. Borthwick is running the Gold Cup series and I’m sure 90% of his energy and focus is put into that series (hence he hasn’t said a peep on here), leaving Vice-President Ken Lalonde to run the WMRC. Ken has his own agenda, whether he admits it or not. He hates lappers, and he doesn’t like the small grids in Expert. So we go back to last year’s proposal of eliminating Amateur and forcing them into Expert, except the slower guys who might get in his way. Those guys won’t qualify to race with Ken. Sorry. And this year there’s no vote, it’s forced on the members. The executive is still run and/or influenced by the same clique of people who put their best interests first. I am not personally affected too much since I run Middleweight Twins, unless my basically stock SV is too slow to qualify in comparison to the 100HP superbike SV “650”s I have to compete against (WMRRA and OMRRA have a Supersport class for the SV’s so people aren’t forced to dump $10,000 into their SV to be competitive). I understand we don’t have the numbers to break the classes down any more, but the rules down south are looking enticing. I will more than likely continue to race Mission with the WMRC if the rules change or not. That’s just my opinion and perspective, but I’m just an inbred redneck from Vancouver Island, so correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  13. Jaybo

    Jaybo if you want blood

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    About which part? The redneck part?
     
  14. Dean Thompson

    Dean Thompson New Member

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    You know there's no arguing that Jay!
     
  15. Jaybo

    Jaybo if you want blood

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    I would've wanted you to at least try to argue the inbred part...eww:beers:
     
  16. Ryan Whittle

    Ryan Whittle Rider of Orange V-Twins

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    There is a follow up meeting with the Rules committee on Sunday to sort a number of items out.

    There will be clarity.

    There will be transparency.
     
  17. ken lalonde

    ken lalonde New Member

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    Dean Thompson you do not speak for me EVER! I said in the post earlier that "I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH LAPPERS!!!!!!!!
    I have personally told Jay that he always rides in a safe and controlled manner.Obviously you have no idea how this club is ran.This club never has and never will be a one man show.
     
  18. ken lalonde

    ken lalonde New Member

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    Oh a Dean you are right.I do have an agenda!!!To make the club grow and develop better racing.
     
  19. bigga_boy

    bigga_boy Livin' The Dream WMRC President

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    We have been promised that in the past..and look where we are
    Just sayin...
     
  20. Jacalyn

    Jacalyn Thread killer....

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    Has anyone on the rules committee considered that the size of the grids for intermediate and expert has been a result of fewer novices for the past 2 years? I was looking back at the results page on wmrc.ca and 2011 and 2012 had no more than 8 novices starting on the good days (read no rain). 2008, 2009 and 2010 had at least 10 and often 15 entries for each race. The current economic situation must be playing a part in this trend, but it seems that once the really fast riders do well at Mission, they move on (i.e. Jervis, Schmidt, Kramer, etc) as there isn't much of a challenge anymore or there isn't a free bike to ride (as Dean has stated in a previous thread).

    I know that this has been beaten to death, but it doesn't make sense to me to eliminate a stepping-stone class that would provide some riders a thrill of winning and perhaps keep them around to pay some more hard earned money for a few years until they can compete for an expert title. Consider intermediate as a carrot....and who doesn't like to win? I see a lot of smiling faces at the awards banquet when handing out intermediate championship titles.
     
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